Restoring order to the LOTRO economy

[Dantrag28]

Restoring order to the LOTRO economy = i want the economy my way.

the lotro economy is a game within the game, learn to play it or dont. some play it well and good for them but this thread title attributes virtue to an opinion that is subjective at best, and nonexistent at worst.

I feel that being rewarded by ingame currency robs us of the feel of accomplishment after you've taken the time to craft and trade, this 2 gold per each GB run bull$hit is ridiculous....I like things the way they are = because it's easy for me.

[Dakil]

I remember when a player with 2 gold was considered wealthy. Wealth was determined by the amount of hard work a player was willing to put in his craft and trade, not farming mobs that the game provides. I'd like to see things go in that general direction again, even if it means cashing out what we currently have for Lotro points.

2 gold? 2 Gold?! Son I had 2.3 gold when I was only level 14.

Turns out there was quite a nice weed market during the open beta. My advanced hybrid seeds sold quite well.

I won't ever forget fighting over farm land in the shire.

I remember getting rich with the farming crit item for black dyes.

[Uniondude]

I agree prices are a little out of hand. That is why my Hobbits does free giveaway days. Alternatively I think it would interesting to have a Kinship that caps the resell price at a certain multiple of the vendor price. If a person joins to buy and then resell at a higher cost they are kicked out and lose access to the lower priced Kinship only listing service on the Auction House.

[Dantrag28]

2 gold? 2 Gold?! Son I had 2.3 gold when I was only level 14.

Turns out there was quite a nice weed market during the open beta. My advanced hybrid seeds sold quite well.

I won't ever forget fighting over farm land in the shire.

I remember getting rich with the farming crit item for black dyes.

I was so broke even at level 35 because I didn't take the time learn how to craft..I didn't even have a mount and people I was partying with were getting mad at me because they had to wait for me to catch up. My wife's toon was a jeweler and she loaned me the gold on the condition I learned how to craft. Those are the challenging times I want brought back, I punished myself due to my own laziness..watching all my friends with their pretty mounts run circles around me. Now it's "I don't have time to craft, I demand more gold drops" or "I want what the raiders have because I don't want to learn".

[thinx]

2 gold? 2 Gold?! Son I had 2.3 gold when I was only level 14.

Hmm. Maybe my mind fails me, but there were times when people had a hard time buying their first horse.

[siipperi]

I was so broke even at level 35 because I didn't take the time learn how to craft..I didn't even have a mount and people I was partying with were getting mad at me because they had to wait for me to catch up. My wife's toon was a jeweler and she loaned me the gold on the condition I learned how to craft. Those are the challenging times I want brought back, I punished myself due to my own laziness..watching all my friends with their pretty mounts run circles around me. Now it's "I don't have time to craft, I demand more gold drops" or "I want what the raiders have because I don't want to learn".

Truth. Now one can just go out and earn 100g on 10 min interwalls.

[Garan]

I agree prices are a little out of hand. That is why my Hobbits does free giveaway days. Alternatively I think it would interesting to have a Kinship that caps the resell price at a certain multiple of the vendor price. If a person joins to buy and then resell at a higher cost they are kicked out and lose access to the lower priced Kinship only listing service on the Auction House.

Good sentiment but can't be enforced, there's nothing to stop a player from having one character buy the stuff, mail/trade it to an alt, even on another account, and then re-listing it on the AH.

[Oelle]

I agree, lotro needs a viable goldsink. there is just too much gold in players hands and nothing to use it on.

[Dakil]

I agree, lotro needs a viable goldsink. there is just too much gold in players hands and nothing to use it on.

This is because they added Mithril for the good stuff. There should be some kind of exchange rate. They could even make it ridiculous, but there should be one.

[thinx]

This is because they added Mithril for the good stuff. There should be some kind of exchange rate. They could even make it ridiculous, but there should be one.

Solvents could have been a gold sink, but they aren't.
They are just a gold circulation system for solvent amounts of unknown origin that cannot be explained by normal playing or stipend.

[Dantrag28]

Good sentiment but can't be enforced, there's nothing to stop a player from having one character buy the stuff, mail/trade it to an alt, even on another account, and then re-listing it on the AH.

My suggestion would be for lotro to cash out everyone's gold in exchange for either mithril coins or lotro points before the new xp (or whatever standing stone has planned in the future) and reduce the amount of gold dropped ingame.

[Vastin]

Hmm. We could always implement a wealth tax. Those tend to have a pretty dramatic effect.

Truth is, if we wanted to implement a long term functioning economy, that's basically one of the simplest ways to do it. Wealth taxes increase the velocity of currency in a system (generally encouraging, rather than discouraging transactions), as well as generally behaving in a highly progressive manner to level off the most dramatic differences between players. Wealth taxes basically function in a 'what have you done for me lately?' sort of manner, as time will devalue past gains.

As it stands, the gold economy in LOTRO kind of wandered out of relevance quite a long time ago. Game economies have next to no relationship to real-world ones (free market OR socialized), and they're even harder to maintain due to the highly artificial nature of the inputs and outputs.

It'd be great fun to try to bring the gold economy back to life in a future update, but it's not a current priority I'm afraid.

However, once Mordor has been defeated and poor King Ellesar gets a look at the bill for Gondor's war debts, I'm pretty sure he's going to have to be passing some deeply unpopular edicts to get the kingdom's accounts back in order.

-Vastin

[Kenomica.]

Extra Credits did some really nice episodes on MMO economy - pretty good watch if you're in to that sort of thing.

[Kenomica.]

and



(Sorry for double post - can't post 2 videos in one post)

[LeRaginAsian]

As it stands, the gold economy in LOTRO kind of wandered out of relevance quite a long time ago. Game economies have next to no relationship to real-world ones (free market OR socialized), and they're even harder to maintain due to the highly artificial nature of the inputs and outputs.

It'd be great fun to try to bring the gold economy back to life in a future update, but it's not a current priority I'm afraid.

As a prolific crafter since year one, I think the segregation (and to a lesser extent, simplification) of professions did a lot to stifle the movement of capital. When weaponsmiths/armourers had to depend on woodworkers/tailors for ingredients, you rely on kinnies, train your own, or pay for them on the AH. Was it frustrating at times? Yes. But there were transactions monetary and social that the system just doesn't require anymore outside of acquiring raw mats.

Of course you also had recipes that were worth investing in either to help level or be competitive in an endgame environment until you could get that rare drop. Tier 6 and 7 was the golden age, I think. Rare items took a decent amount of work while guilds were a great buffer to the frustration of bad crit RNG without flooding the economy. Tier 8 and 9 were fine, if formulaic, but 10 has been dismal. I don't mind the essence system but in conjunction with imbued LI's killing that aspect, it's really taken over crafting as the only reason anyone keeps up with it.

While I don't think it *fixes* the economy on its own, I think taking a good look at revitalizing crafting is a worthwhile venture that would have positive tertiary effects on the market.

[Vastin]

Extra Credits did some really nice episodes on MMO economy - pretty good watch if you're in to that sort of thing.

I do always love me some Extra Credit/Extra History!

[Gyes]

Game economies have next to no relationship to real-world ones (free market OR socialized), and they're even harder to maintain due to the highly artificial nature of the inputs and outputs.

Neither of these statements are true. You as game devs have way more control over your game's economy than Janet Yellen has over the US economy. The difference is that she knows what tools she has and how to use them effectively.

[Urwendil]

However, once Mordor has been defeated and poor King Ellesar gets a look at the bill for Gondor's war debts, I'm pretty sure he's going to have to be passing some deeply unpopular edicts to get the kingdom's accounts back in order.

-Vastin

I see what you did there (even if you didn't )

[BotLike]

Very interesting thread.

My 2 cents.

As stated above , it's all about gold sinks.
Leave AH and repair fee as it is.

Start with a vast increase on stable costs depending on stable-area level.
Add an optional gold cost at festival awards.This can be partial , something like spend 200g + 20 tokens or 40 tokens.
Revisit vault upgrade costs , retrait costs , mount costs , pot costs.
There are simply SOOOOO many ways.

I agree that the economy needs some love ; /

The only upside is that we have less chinese gold farmers...

[Boraxxe]

Very interesting thread.

My 2 cents.

As stated above , it's all about gold sinks.
Leave AH and repair fee as it is.

Start with a vast increase on stable costs depending on stable-area level.
Add an optional gold cost at festival awards.This can be partial , something like spend 200g + 20 tokens or 40 tokens.
Revisit vault upgrade costs , retrait costs , mount costs , pot costs.
There are simply SOOOOO many ways.

I agree that the economy needs some love ; /

The only upside is that we have less chinese gold farmers...

Good ideas.
Here's some more:

We should be paying for the maintenance all of those nice mounts we like to collect.
And then there are Banking fees....how are those poor vault keepers making a living?
I heard that the Auction hall conglomerate is in need of more capital.
Also, who is taking care of all of the Crafting facilities? I heard that the poor schmucks who are doing all of the cleaning and maintenance are demanding a raise in the minimum wage.
Not to mention the Crafting vendors. Costs are going up all over, but not for a quart of milk?

Idea-listing ended.

Obviously if costs are going to generally increase it should be done in a progressive way so that the new players are not jolted so bad that they don't want to play. Higher end stuff should cost more than lower end stuff.
For example, Apprentice crop seed should cost much less than Anorien crop seed.

[Valakircka]

Hmm. Maybe my mind fails me, but there were times when people had a hard time buying their first horse.

indeed!

[Valakircka]

Very interesting thread.

My 2 cents.

As stated above , it's all about gold sinks.
Leave AH and repair fee as it is.

Start with a vast increase on stable costs depending on stable-area level.
Add an optional gold cost at festival awards.This can be partial , something like spend 200g + 20 tokens or 40 tokens.
Revisit vault upgrade costs , retrait costs , mount costs , pot costs.
There are simply SOOOOO many ways.

I agree that the economy needs some love ; /

The only upside is that we have less chinese gold farmers...

i m going to agree about the stables.........the longer the journey the more expensive should be!
but the gold cost for fest rewards its just rediculus yo suggest...........
even now with the anniversary i found out that not the majority of players paying anytime just to visit the square of Bree even.......
i hail from a really good kinship with many people tho less than the 10% have payed a visit to shire fest area..........
only 2 days ago i was talking to mates about all the things you may get still they show no interest at all!
if you are going to add gold payment to the rewards expect to loose more people!
you all know about the crying about the scavenger hunt, i found amazing!
now about the mounts.......yes some mounts has to be more expensive but not the starting mounts!
i remember how difficult was for everybody to get a mount on lvl!
you may make the function mounts more expensive i m ok with that!

[Valakircka]

However, once Mordor has been defeated and poor King Ellesar gets a look at the bill for Gondor's war debts, I'm pretty sure he's going to have to be passing some deeply unpopular edicts to get the kingdom's accounts back in order.

-Vastin

is that right? i dont want to read ssuch a joke!
Faramir getting the sister of the king of Rohan n Ithilien!
what are we going to get being running here n there for the most ridiculus things someone may imagine......
we r fighters n we r gathering flowers FGShake...........
now you thinking about taxes?
come on dudes!

[yawumpus]

Hmm. Maybe my mind fails me, but there were times when people had a hard time buying their first horse.

I'l believe that. But unless things changed that was limited to level 20. Of course you can do a quick grind for a steel key (or get lucky enough for a random drop) and rake in double digits of gold, but typically low level players are going to have to be creative about getting gold.

I've been more annoyed that LOTRO's "economy" apparently only exists for capped characters or otherwise at endgame. I know I did trade for hides to get a bunch of characters to grandmaster in a "one month VIP wonder" (that had cap raised from underneath them, and I've since bought out all guild requirements during a sale), but otherwise it is hard to find a reason to show up at the AH under level 100. There just aren't any good unbound loot to bother to sell. Everything is either a direct reward, or barter.

Face it. The only thing you really 'need' gold for is housing. LI are something of a gold sink, but you are better of crafting shard-fodder relics and paying in shards.

[Schmidster]

This is very interesting to me. There have been posts before about in-game gold and the economy.

I am currently re-playing the game, all toons and house stuff deleted, totally starting from the beginning.

My last crew was a maxed (100) LM, a couple of toons around 70 and a couple around 30, 40.

4 were max guilded crafters. I never had a total Gold of more than, say, 50, 80 Gold...on all characters. Total.

That was because my main sunk money into LI management, others would buy crafting resources in the AH, or crafted until they had the high level crits I needed.

THIS TIME AROUND...

My main is level 103 ( LIs are a problem) and I have a max guilded Tailor. They sell the odd pieces for cheap.

But I can Explore node gather up until 5th tier (?)

They sell stacks of nodes and wood. I look what is for sale on the AH...a stack of ore for 12 Gold? I sell for 6.

I hit a thousand Gold in a few months. It was much cause for celebration with my spouse, console PS4 player, over martinis on Fridays.

I NEVER thought I would reach that amount of Gold....ever.

In my opinion LI grind IS a money sink. Festival quests are Mithril Coin sinks ( that might be a company decision but could change to be Gold sinks, but that would be hard on new players using parents credit cards).

So, in my opinion, the Auction House is the single most multiplier of the in-game steroid economy effect.


Not sure what you mean about "cashing out on lotro points" but if it means buying in-store items and selling them, I think that is crazy.
I have seen in world chat something about buying an option to open "bound to character" for selling to anybody. That would be an even bigger economy changer, but again that might be a company decision.

Lastly, the amount of Gold other players have matters...because? You are forced to pay more? You want hard earned items to still be worth 2 Gold?

I laugh when my spouse says "I have 35,000 coins!". Then they say a house cost 3 million coins.

Are we that depreciated?

Edit: Read your post again. There was a time just after Shadows Of Angmar when I would re-visit a pocket of spiders in the north-east, at level 60ish so I could make a Gold coin in two or three nights of an hour landscape-mob blast. So yes, gold was available if you were solo and super casual, maybe?