New Legendary System Implementation/Rollout - Horrid

[DKenny]

Why does the existence of a cash option = a cash grab in the minds of some players? Is it the youngest players who think this? The ones who need permission to spend anything? FYI I haven't spent a penny on Mithril to create my new LI's, and they're better than my old ones. You're missing something great.

Edit: They're not even maxed, they're still better than my old ones.

Edit 2: You're missing out... you're missing ouuut! :P

To the extent that that's true now, it doesn't mean it will carry forward that way. Content typically gets balanced against the best available.

When they introduced trait trees with the Helm's Deep, there was a lot of hate. Part of the way they mitigated the hate was by making DPS, pretty much across the classes, OP relative to mobs. As a hunter, being squishy didn't really matter so much because mobs could easily be mowed down before they could come close, even if they couldn't be / you failed to pull them one-at-a-time. But guess what, afterwards it was deemed that DPS was OP, and mobs needed to be buffed. Oh, and then partial BPE was changed such that finesse couldn't completely mitigate the effects, because that "made more sense". Suddenly it wasn't easy / possible to mow down all the mobs before they got to a squishy hunter.

So yeah, your less than max new system LI may be more powerful than your old ones at point in time, however, being less than max might not be so great going forward.

[OghranNasty]

So if you don't raid you don't get a decent weapon?

You'll find that your new weapon is much more powerful than the old one, on my hunter I got a little over 50% extra dps. Most of the power you get from item level (read: reforges). Don't worry, just try.

[OghranNasty]

Is it possible to sell your account? Does anyone want to buy one? I just recently paid my VIP bill. I've been playing this game since day one and have invested tens of thousands of hours and thousands of dollars leveling my toons and weapons. I had plans I invested money in to build my weapons... all gone. This is criminal. What were these people thinking? Obviously this game is being developed for the very few at the expense of many. I have NO desire to be forced to learn and invest in a new system while knowing all my effort and funds invested in the old system were stolen from me and burned to the ground... I'm done... looking for a new game... see ya!

Probably. It is also very much against TOS, so if the buyer gets caught he'll get a permaban as a bonus.
Maybe you can gain interest from a certain magician on the Indian subcontinent ...

[OghranNasty]

Not so sure about "overlapping".

Neither am I, but the way I understood it is this: in the future you should see drops of LI stuff for your level cap and the next, so by the time you near current cap you will be already hoarding towards the next cap.

I've read that when you enhance your traceries you're actually upgrading the slot on the LI, not the tracery itself. So for example, if you enhance the tracery in slot 1, but not in slot two, then remove and swap the traceries, the previously slot 2 tracery that is now in slot 1 will become the enhanced one, while the formerly slot 1 tracery now in slot 2 will not be enhanced.

Confirmed on BR 4, haven't tried on live yet.

[Omen_Kaizer]

I like the change, but only because I'm the type to put up with a lot of jank and bad UI and minimal instructions if I think the bones of something are solid with good customization. (In other words, I play Dwarf Fortress)

Pros: It's way easier now to get a functional LI on an alt. Starlit crystals have essentially been replaced by basic gold costs when you reforge. Empowerment runes are far less important than empowerment scrolls, and though you need more of them, I'm absolutely swimming in them already. Having legacies and relics and titles turned into traceries which are repainted essences (that have the functionality(!) of being able to carry set bonuses) is good design. Tracery replacement scrolls from your standard weekly mission quest are easier to come by than relic removal or imbued legacy replacement scrolls. Class traceries not being tied to weapon vs item is great.

Cons I overlook: UI is still beta and it's awful because of it. All the MC buttons are annoying--but you dont need to spend MC so whatever. There are no real instructions--I understand it fully only because I played the beta and frankly because I take to things easier/am more savvy about game systems than most LotRO players.


It does feel like 1 step forward for LIs, 2 steps backwards for class balance. The latter is far far more important to me as a player

[Raninia]

Well, the difference is the original (Moria) LI system didn't disable your old LI when your character levelled up, it just couldn't be upgraded any further. That's unlike the new LI system where traceries will become disabled when your character levels above the tracery level range. Not so sure about "overlapping". There was an official statement that level 121-130 level range traceries will continue to function up to level 140, but that was an exception. So at lower levels you'll have to get replacements as soon as you out level the level range, or your LI will be crippled. That's not how the original LI or imbued LI systems worked. Not sure why you believe that having to regrind to replace / rebuild traceries will be an improvement over the old system.

I've read that when you enhance your traceries you're actually upgrading the slot on the LI, not the tracery itself. So for example, if you enhance the tracery in slot 1, but not in slot two, then remove and swap the traceries, the previously slot 2 tracery that is now in slot 1 will become the enhanced one, while the formerly slot 1 tracery now in slot 2 will not be enhanced. So if enhancement is tied to the LI slot, not the tracery in it, then won't enhancement simply build up over time? And then there won't really be a "reset" in the sense that you mean, it's simply traceries themselves that will need to be replaced. Whatever enhancement you did, or failed to do, will be carried forward.

The exception with the 121-130 level range is that you can level your tracery into the next range, not that it keeps working into the next range. All traceries work into the subsequent level range, and aren't disabled there.

[Braer]

The advice to just "keep doing what you normal do concerning ILIs before the update" was some of the worst advice anyone could offer. Making an extra two 412 item level ILS made a huge difference. Not publishing details of the LI conversion will have suckered plenty more.

The returns we did get show how poorly understood was the grief we had suffered with ILIs. The huge potential damage increase of IoLs makes a mockery of current content difficulty/balance.

[Aethilods]

First and foremost you can tell there was very little user input asked for or taken on this, it appears to be an internal decision to make legendries as monetizable as possible. There are opportunities to spend MC everywhere you look.

Second, There has been little to NO guidance or what to do once you actually click the appraise button. There are no guiding prompts in game, nothing explaining what to do after. There is a website link that explains things at a very high level but not enough to keep users from wasting their appraised currencies.

Three, in this system you basically reinvented the wheel and made it a square....instead of focusing on what was in place and working.

At bare minimum you owe your players some form of compensation for a horrid rollout that is resulting in high levels of frustration for many players.

You had a whole month to check and read up about this, how do you think most people that love this feel? Great most people check BR out, and it worked in their favor, now i spent a lot of yesterday explaining how the new system works, and no MC is fine, your high standards, and your criticizing something that they talked about a year ago was getting placed, and now you think we need compensation sure, I would agree on that feeling but, the way it works is simply we do not need compensation at all, the appraisal process could add more traceries items but it doesn't no big deal I gain 20% more dps and 40% more morale i am fine, I love the new system I spent the week in BR seeing how it will work and plan accordingly, and this system btw is not made for 5th graders, so, take your frustration somewhere else.

[Omen_Kaizer]

Why does the existence of a cash option = a cash grab in the minds of some players? Is it the youngest players who think this? The ones who need permission to spend anything? FYI I haven't spent a penny on Mithril to create my new LI's, and they're better than my old ones. You're missing something great.

Yeah that kind of take really is the worst. They have no idea what's going on to even say that, just a knee jerk reaction at MC buttons.

Bad monetization in an MMO is when you have to pay to get boosts & gear you can't acquire (at a realistic rate) by playing. You could level that charge at the monetization for solvents (from spring 2020 to W3P release, anyway) and for +5% w/e buff tomes, which are attainable at a trickle by playing the game. But these empowerment runes, traceries, even tracery replacement scrolls, you can get by playing and the MC is merely for shortcuts.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

The advice to just "keep doing what you normal do concerning ILIs before the update" was some of the worst advice anyone could offer. Making an extra two 412 item level ILS made a huge difference. Not publishing details of the LI conversion will have suckered plenty more.

The returns we did get show how poorly understood was the grief we had suffered with ILIs. The huge potential damage increase of IoLs makes a mockery of current content difficulty/balance.

Indeed it was horrible. I was helping as many people as I could in streams and in discords for the prep work before the update. We had really poor communication and just outright BAD advice and I was trying to make it so people didn't get left out in the cold.


This is what I made that I was sharing around to help people prepare their NON imbued third agers:

With the information we have currently, here's what I recommend doing BEFORE Update 30.3/October 13th Patch:

1) For every character able to use LIs (level 51-130) equip third age LIs into non populated tabs.
2) Apply a Scroll of Delving to them to allow them to get to level 70 instead of the default 60.
3) Dump LI Experience into them and reforge them until they are level 70/completely reforged.
4) Do not apply Star-lits or Crystals of remembrance to them. They do nothing for the payout on an unimbued LI.
5) If your "extra tabs" of third agers are level 100, do NOT imbue them. You get a lesser payout of Cyan Enhancement Runes when imbuing them.
6) Also, make sure your MAIN Imbued LIs (first agers/whatever you use) have the experience maxed. The more experience in your LIs the more Ancient Script you get in return as well as enhancement runes.
7) If you care about a well set up bridle... set it up NOW. Come the 13th you will not be able to mess with or reforge/decon third age bridles to get legacy scrolls for them.
8) If you have a ton of Ancient-ithil coins from Throne of the Dread Terror it MIGHT be a good idea to cash them out for Scrolls of Empowerment or Star-lits. We do NOT know what we'll get for them in return for a barter as SSG is not telling us but these coins will be mostly useless now. You will only be able to convert them to Morgul Crests and barter for level 101 Enhancement Runes and Tracery boxes across the way at the Pelennor instance vendor.

NOTE: When the patch goes live and if you are at or near level 120, do NOT convert your old LIs until you reach level 121+. Level to 121-130 because converting LIs give you the exact same amount of components in those level ranges. (i.e. don't immediately convert a level 120 valar'd character's LIs. Level one level to 121 and then do it. The reason why is because if you are level 120, it'll give you level 116 enhancement runes rather than the level 121 enhancement runes.

This is what I made that I was sharing around to help people prepare their imbued third agers (did this one on Stine's Twitch Stream):

So if you have a ton of Ancient-ithil coins, Star-lits, Scrolls of Empowerment, Heritage runes, etc.. and want to know what to do to prepare for the maximum payout with minimal effort to use up those resources, do this:

Minimal Imbued Steps:
1) Get a third ager
2) Apply scroll of delving
3) Apply crystal of remembrance (if you have them)
4) Apply Stat legacy (Tier 4 agi/vit/might/will/fate etc..) to the crystal of remembrance blank spot (saves 2 empowerment scrolls)
5) Max out experience to 70 and reforge it all the way
6) Apply points to max out the DPS/Healing/main legacy (first on the list) on the LI. Only this one counts.
7) Imbue the item
8) Apply 15 Star-lits to get the dps/healing/main legacy stat to Tier 54
9) Apply SoEs to get every legacy to Tier 54
10) Apply heritage runes to max out experience

This gives the following return:

Minimal Imbued Total: 5400 Ancient Scripts, 270 Purple Enhancement Runes, 36 Cyan Enhancement Runes, 9 Shattered Traceries
vs.
Max Unimbued Total: 3600 Ancient Scripts, 150 Purple Enhancement Runes, 50 Cyan Enhancement Runes, 5 Shattered Traceries
Maximum Imbued Total: 5400 Ancient Scripts, 270 Purple Enhancement Runes, 86 Cyan Enhancement Runes, 9 Shattered Traceries

[Braer]

Indeed it was horrible. I was helping as many people as I could in streams and in discords for the prep work before the update. We had really poor communication and just outright BAD advice and I was trying to make it so people didn't get left out in the cold.


This is what I made that I was sharing around to help people prepare their NON imbued third agers:



This is what I made that I was sharing around to help people prepare their imbued third agers (did this one on Stine's Twitch Stream):

I was only guessing what I needed to do from the BR feedback, only got more accurate details after the event, so I lucked out at getting over the 408 cut off and the 8 Fragment returns. Pulled an all-nighter getting my 32 ILIs count up to 52 First Ager ILIs, I was doing Dol Dailies for Delving Scrolls too... then a load of clicking. The 5 minute to shutdown a blessed relief and the sleep of the dead... Woke after the hotfix announcement.

Those out in the cold are going to stay that way because any easy access to Ancient Scripts will bring Raid Farms. Until SSG address the Raid Farm mechanic with some technical expertise rather than numpty thinking that's not going to happen.

[NacMac]

Whilst I realise that updating all the quests to provide specific updated rewards will take some time, why couldn't the two most basic rewards in the game have been updated … Legendary Item Experience and Runes of Legend.

Almost every post Level 50 quest awards Legendary Item Experience which now does nothing. Runes continue to drop frequently and are also useles but because of a possible future trade-in I don't want to trash.

Surely by now the Item Experience reward could have been:

Modified to increase enhancement on the new LI's
Replaced with something as simple as Ancient Script or Enhancement Runes (although this could be a problem as they are level bound)
Simply removed (as it does nothing)

[gripply]

Whilst I realise that updating all the quests to provide specific updated rewards will take some time, why couldn't the two most basic rewards in the game have been updated … Legendary Item Experience and Runes of Legend.

Almost every post Level 50 quest awards Legendary Item Experience which now does nothing. Runes continue to drop frequently and are also useles but because of a possible future trade-in I don't want to trash.

Surely by now the Item Experience reward could have been:

Modified to increase enhancement on the new LI's
Replaced with something as simple as Ancient Script or Enhancement Runes (although this could be a problem as they are level bound)
Simply removed (as it does nothing)

I was thinking about this today and realized that it's probably because of bridles. They have ADDED things to quests instead of REPLACING things because it's probably safer to do that for now. Deeds also provide XP Heritage Runes, even in the most current content. I'm only guessing that this is to help us convert them to something useful when Gundabad is released. We won't be able to Appraise and get a big rush of Enhancements or Scripts ever again.

[aulerian]

Since like ever??? You think all the websites you mentioned existed long before when MMOs first came to be? Also you are forgetting the age range this game has and not all of us are using twitter or reddit. As product owner/developer, if you are introducing a new system you are obligated to explain and show how it works. You don't expect people to run around and figure it out from external resources which could be right or wrong. He put it rightly, it is the first impression. Do you think a new player will be rejoiced from what he will see?

You clearly never played EQ because that is EXACTLY how it worked. If you wanted to craft something you ( or someone else who shared their info ) would put ingredients in your crafting kit and hit the combine button. If it worked you now had a recipe. If it didn't then you knew that combination was not a new recipe. Lots of trial and error and discovery. No one is "obligated" to hold your hand in an MMO. Explore, ask questions, make use of the community resources. Did you even read the patch notes??!! This stuff was very straightforward.