Why are people so spectacularly bad at playing their classes?

[CFury]

Basically, because people are playing in the ways that they find to be fun, not to win the approval of strangers. For many, that means they learn how to solo effectively - but aren't grand at groups. Some hate grinding out Virtues (or ever-better LIs), so they don't. Others don't get into the whole "maximize your spreadsheet" thing, and don't bother chasing optimal stats. They're doing what they enjoy, whether that be questing, crafting, roleplaying, assorted completionist activities, music, chatting with friends, playing the market on the AH, etc. It's their money, and their time -- and it's nobody else's business how they choose to spend it, or what they find to be fun. They don't exist in order to make your groups better.

This.

People are not *bad*, they just dont care to make a job out of the game. They dont want to invest as much time and effort in figuring out some tactics in game they play to relax as they would do for a job assignment.
And in the end, its their right to play exactly how they want.

My Mother cooks perfect dinners but she makes so much fuss and is so stressed over them that none of her guests every feel comfortable least enjoy her meals. My Aunt on the other hand will happily order pizza for everyone and have fun and relaxed evening with friends.
I am glad there are *bad* players in this game, people who are too old to have good hand-eye coordination or just dont care to be "uber leet" and only want to have some fun. I am sick and tired of "leet kids" willing to walk over anyone to get some pixel loot, the fact that every character in game is controlled by real person with feelings is beyond their comprehension.
I rather play with nice and polite than *good* player.

Besides, the content is easy enough that you can beat almost anything with not-so-perfect performance and I did all of it with lots of average players. OP sounds demanding, controlling and selfish to me.

[Leo_Dan]

I am glad there are *bad* players in this game, people who are too old to have good hand-eye coordination or just dont care to be "uber leet" and only want to have some fun. I am sick and tired of "leet kids" willing to walk over anyone to get some pixel loot, the fact that every character in game is controlled by real person with feelings is beyond their comprehension.
I rather play with nice and polite than *good* player.

I wasn't aware that "good" = uber l33t elitist. Good to know.

[ninian]

Ihave been playing solo since just after beta testing. I am partially paralised and play mostly in bed on my laptop. I don't join groups because of physical limitations, the same reason I don't join kinships. I would hate to let anyone down so i will continue my slow but fun game. But please give it a thought sometime, that not everyone is as young/fit/physically/mentally able as you maybe.
I hope every carries on enjoying the game in their own way. I am on snowbourn and my son and my carer gave me a suitable elvish name for my warden - Naneth Caila, I belive it means mother lieing in bed . So if you see me on you're travels please feel free to say hello, and forgive me if I amrather slow to answer.

[Bhorn_EU]

Interesting thread, this. I have 5 65's and working on a sixth, I will, and do, raid regularily with champ and captain, occasionally with loremaster, even less with hunter (but that is because he has bad gear) and have to be dragged kicking and screaming in on grd. The reason? I know my classes, I know I'm good on chmp/capt and I know I'm not so hot on grd. As tanks and healers are probably more important to a raid's survival than other classes, this is where problems lie. A 65 mini who's WS'd they're way up won't have the muscle memory to heal a group as well as a one who's done all the low level group quests. Same with a guardian who's OP'd everything won't be keeping his or her eye on who's hitting the mini (hopefully no-one).
In my opinion, most of the player base is made up of casual players with a small core of uber raiders on each server. So the game caters to where the money is, obviously. If the OP wants to play with players of his own, or better, skill level, then work within your kin, if you're not in a kin, find one you like, and that likes you, and have a GOOD TIME.

Another alternative would be to start llfing and gllfing advertising your services to anyone who wants to learn instances, that way you get a feeling of satisfaction for helping others (providing they want to learn) and hopefully, others learn more about their class and thus enjoy the game more.

[UKNightWatch]

I wasn't aware that "good" = uber l33t elitist.

It does not.

Sadly though, some 'good' players (and only some) act in a superior manner that comes across as elitist to others. Even more sad is that because some players act in that way, many 'good' players are unfairly 'tarred with the same brush' so to speak and unfairly seen as elitist.

Again, just as someone may be more casual or less experienced it does not mean they are a 'bad' player and just because someone has a more rigid style of play or is more experienced or determined it does not mean they are a 'good' player. Furthermore, neither case makes a player elitist - elitism is perceived when a player is rude, arrogant or acting superior because he or she has determined (in their own opinion) that they or their group are better than others.

[Leo_Dan]

It does not.

I know it does not. I was responding to a post that used the term "good" that way. For some reason some people ,like the person I was responding to, seem to believe "good" does indeed mean elitist.

[ericsbane]

I think I roleplay my Hunter really well... I cant raid to save my life though. LOL

(I hope to God someone understands my point here, and folks don't think I did not read the thread. LOL)

[Nirc]

This.

People are not *bad*, they just dont care to make a job out of the game. They dont want to invest as much time and effort in figuring out some tactics in game they play to relax as they would do for a job assignment.
And in the end, its their right to play exactly how they want.

My Mother cooks perfect dinners but she makes so much fuss and is so stressed over them that none of her guests every feel comfortable least enjoy her meals. My Aunt on the other hand will happily order pizza for everyone and have fun and relaxed evening with friends.
I am glad there are *bad* players in this game, people who are too old to have good hand-eye coordination or just dont care to be "uber leet" and only want to have some fun. I am sick and tired of "leet kids" willing to walk over anyone to get some pixel loot, the fact that every character in game is controlled by real person with feelings is beyond their comprehension.
I rather play with nice and polite than *good* player.

Besides, the content is easy enough that you can beat almost anything with not-so-perfect performance and I did all of it with lots of average players. OP sounds demanding, controlling and selfish to me.

I understand the sentiment behind what you two are saying but I have to disagree slightly. I 100% agree that while playing solo it doesn't matter what you do, as long as it's fun for you it's fine. Not so much in fellowship content though. I may choose to run around Enedwaith with no pants on shouting 'THE SNOZZBERRIES STOLE MY TONGUE!", that sounds fun. Should I do it in fellowships though? Nope.

I'm not a "leet" player by any means, but I'm respectful enough to the people around me that when I run an instance I pay a bit of attention and follow instruction. As soon as I join a fellowship my actions can negatively or positively effect others so I think people should at least make an attempt at working as a team.

While it's their right to play how they want to, it's also the groups right to drop them from the group itself.

[Mandura]

I think the problem why people don't know how to play in groups is, that trubine has changed almost every quest in the game to be able to be done solo, so there is no reason to group up until you hit the level cap. Since MoM came out, i have rarely seen any people looking for groups for landscape questing/small fellowship quests until lvl 50+. Many people just skip those quests entirely. And when I do see those requests in the chat, the only answer is "its' solo-able, so do it solo". A shame, really!

[Gregori]

I came from WoW, leaving very shortly after they started across server pugging, making it mandatory for the heroic dailies. WoW always had a problem with rudeness, this new pugging system escalating it tenfold. I was a dedicated raider, in a raiding Guild, and was highly gear/achievement oriented. I also enjoyed running lower instances (including lower raids) that would give me nothing I could use simply for the fun of it or to help out. I also pet tanked. I was relatively new at it, tanking just the three easiest heroics, but think I could have gone farther.

What killed it for me was End Game mentality. The pre 80s game (80 being level cap then) was completely different than the 80s game. More than once when a loot fight broke out I would simply say "forget about it" even if whatever loot it was something I needed. No piece of loot was worth the ruckus people would put up over it. I took raiding seriously but the abhorrent manners displayed in end game simply was not necessary to be a serious raider... at least in my eyes. I believe that there is never a situation that can be helped by bad manners and that anything can be said without being a #######.

That is why I quit the game. I came here, hoping this kind of attitude was not here. I was wrong... after having reached level cap here and having talked to folks who have played other mmos, I have come to believe that this attitude is present in all MMOs at end game. From what I have seen, it is not as bad here, or at least on Riddermark, than in WoW (on the 2 servers and innumerable guilds I tried).

I like to raid... I actually love raiding. I love the challenge, I love working as a team, I am one of those people who researches and discusses an instance before he tries it the first time and, if not successful, analyzes mine and my fellowship's performance afterwards to find out where we went wrong, doing more research, and going again. I think this is a blast. I love the complexity and I love expanding my skills to overcome each challenge.

However, I hate the attitude I see at endgame and, hence, remain in my Moria gear, am in a casual, helpful, and friendly kin, and have had to change what I like so I do not miss raiding and instances so much. I spent a couple of months out of the game to adjust my mindset to handle not running as many instances as I like, rather being satisfied with the content my wife and I can do alone, or with what I can do with my kin. Luckily, my kin is working on grouping and instances.

I do not know many instances, however.

I know how to play my class and was considered halfway good in WoW and am told I am good in Lotro. The thing is I do not know many instances because I have never been in a large enough kin with as many instance runs as I like. If I PUGed I would know more of the instances but I have what I call "WoWburn" and have heard of the stories of rudeness in PUGs in Lotro. I have seen people slamming others in GLFF.

So, while I love to raid, run instances, group (and am good at it), my intolerance to rudeness has ensured that I am never going to reach end game here or anywhere else... unless I reach it along with my kin.

I wonder how many are like me... good groupers/raiders who do not raid as much as they would like due to elitist attitudes.

[Ailedra]

I think the problem why people don't know how to play in groups is, that trubine has changed almost every quest in the game to be able to be done solo, so there is no reason to group up until you hit the level cap. Since MoM came out, i have rarely seen any people looking for groups for landscape questing/small fellowship quests until lvl 50+. Many people just skip those quests entirely. And when I do see those requests in the chat, the only answer is "its' solo-able, so do it solo". A shame, really!

Why is it a shame? It's a shame that people who choose to play solo/duo are able to experience the majority of the game while solo/duo?

[Aztec_Soul]

best case scenario, is get some real-life friends to play, and get through the game together...

doing this with a loremaster friend and minstrel friend, really makes completing 3-man and even some 6-man stuff that much easier and fun... it takes a while for some to get into the feel for their chosen class in groups, so there is some patience required for it... but after they invest enough time into it, they should become better through pure experience and mutual support... compare that to verbal abuse from a stranger with zero tolerance for failure...

myself, I wouldn't tackle instances with 6 people in it, for the simple fact that my laptop just can't handle that without freezing up too frequently... as a captain, everything rides on me as the fail-safe, in case things go bad for the group... and because my laptop decided to freeze up for 1min on one occasion, I inadvertently caused a wipe... or one other time, I had to leave the computer to take an important call, but that didn't end badly...

now, I consider myself a decent captain, but when things happen that are out of your control, it would be hard to communicate this to the rest of the group... the best one can do is know your computer's limits, keep up to date with gear, and really study the tooltips and skill effects to really learn when to use certain skills to develop a good button-mashing cycle... getting real-life friends on to learn together is suggested...

[Balamoor]

I have been playing this game since early beta. I haven not ran into many so called Bads, I have met people who could stand to improve and with a few polite suggestions usually do.

I have noticed however lately a few WoW rejects that have started playing and are attempting to bring the whole good/bad BS here...these folks usually are ignored and shunned because folks know it really isn't about good and bad to them... it's more about some self entitled troll giving others a hard time because the find that more fun than actually playing the game.

[Boffadoc]

I am a big believer in the notion that this is a game, and it should be fun rather than work. I know there are people who actually slot gear into spread-sheets, so they know their ideal gear configuration. They've computed the numbers; they know what the best skills for damage/power/second, or healing/power/second are. I'm not prepared to do that kind of work to play a game.

On the flip-side, this is a game... I want to enjoy my time. There is nothing at all enjoyable about running a PUG where the Guard doesn't have any active toggle skill. "Hey, I don't want to tell you how to play your class... but don't you think you ought to have Guardian's Defense active?" "Uh... what's that?" Or how about that Mini? "If you would please turn off War Speech while being main-healer, I think that'd be great, thanks."

The one thing I've noticed, coming from WoW, was that you could be confident that someone coming from your own Guild actually had a basic handle on their class. A Tank understood the mechanics of tanking, had appropriate gear, and was ready to use their skills. I have noticed in LOTRO, as often as not it is people in my own kins that don't have a basic handle on mechanics. Of course, it is the kin's business to work with these play deficiencies.


Something I don't entirely understand is how people could not know what their skills are. Your class trainers dole skills out in one or two skills every other level. When you get a new skill, you just got to spend a few minutes reading the tool-tip, deciding what purpose the skill serves, and then slotting it into your hotbar in a way that makes sense. I also try to slot my skills in a way that's consistent across my different characters. The hot-button that summons a mount is in the same spot for all of my characters. All of my "Stance" type skills get grouped together, usually in a similar place on my skill bars. I think everyone should be able to, and responsible for, understanding what their class can do. I don't expect you to be able to write a bloody Thesis on the class, just to be able to handle your bid-niz.


Another problem I see, is that there tends to be a lack of group content. People can & should run GB a few times in their early 20s -I think you need to clear it 4 times to get enough tokens for your level 25 GB set. Level 32 comes along, and players should run that a few times to get their Eglain gear... but GA is oddly broken up. A lot of it is really difficult to complete on-level. Since the vendor with the class rewards is brutally difficult to get to, a lot of players are earning rewards they can't cash. Virtually nobody runs Fornost. I don't think anyone runs Annuminas. Plenty of people do Helegrod marks runs, absolutely no one runs it for a Full Clear.

What I'm saying is... after 20-24, there is a lack of fellowship content worth doing for the rewards that are available... so a lot of people just don't Fellow.

[Repriever]

So I've just come back to this thread and there are some very interesting responses. I get where most of you are coming from. What I don't get is people who take a comment on why people may or may not have learned how to play their class and somehow twist it into some kind of personal attack on their playstyle or even the kind of person they are. A perfect example of this below...

I am glad there are *bad* players in this game, people who are too old to have good hand-eye coordination or just dont care to be "uber leet" and only want to have some fun. I am sick and tired of "leet kids" willing to walk over anyone to get some pixel loot, the fact that every character in game is controlled by real person with feelings is beyond their comprehension.
I rather play with nice and polite than *good* player.

Besides, the content is easy enough that you can beat almost anything with not-so-perfect performance and I did all of it with lots of average players. OP sounds demanding, controlling and selfish to me.

So you're saying people who like to learn what their class is capable of have a 'leet' mentality and are willing to walk over people to get what they want and are basically rude and impolite? How on Earth did you come up with that? I did not 'demand' anything by the way and I'm certainly not controlling. If you think wanting to group with people who know what they're doing makes me selfish well okay by the sound of your post you have come to all kinds of conclusions about me knowing nothing at all about me so I guess nothing will change your mind.

This isn't the only response of this nature. Many people seem to get incredibly defensive if they think their right to solo from start to finish in an MMO is under attack. You're all missing the point. You want to solo? Fine. I get that. I mostly solo myself. You want the game to be fun? That's fine too, so do I and I accept my idea of fun may be different to yours.

All I am saying is the game is so easy there is NO INCENTIVE for any player to learn what their skills do as you can just click a couple of buttons right till endgame and you're done. The fact death does not punish you with an experience loss definitely contributes to this imo. People play better and learn their classes more if they have something to lose by dying. Fear is a great tutor.

I don't see how playing solo all the time is a good excuse for having no idea what most of your skills do but looking at the many comments complaining about clueless players in PUGs I think it's reasonable to expect players to at least know the basics of their class IF THEY WANT TO GROUP. Obviously if you intend to solo the whole time it's completely irrelevant. I'm sure some incredibly sensitive soul will pipe up complaining I am telling them what to do lol oh well.

[Chanah]

All I am saying is the game is so easy there is NO INCENTIVE for any player to learn what their skills do as you can just click a couple of buttons right till endgame and you're done. The fact death does not punish you with an experience loss definitely contributes to this imo. People play better and learn their classes more if they have something to lose by dying. Fear is a great tutor.

Fear is a lousy motivator. For those who like those kinds of games, though, there's EVE, and a few others. It would probably make people stick to Fed-Ex and other 'safe' quests, and not do instances/go after elites/take chances - because the risk is too high. Wardens wouldn't be able to be crazy and solo all the things we solo anymore, because we'd never get to a high enough level to do them (I'm not saying other classes don't do the same thing, just we're kinda known for this sort of insanity.)

And in a game like LoTRO? A lot of folks would just quit. I don't like to think of just turning 65, doing an instance, and being instantly demoted to 62 from dying because I'd never done the instance, didn't know the tactics, or - and it's not just my computer though in my case that is an issue - there are also lag spikes. Especially in raids.

About the only groups you'd find are ones doing mail and pies in the Shire if there was a heftier death penalty. Even Turbine (I don't think) would be willing to bank on people staying if they sold a pricey 'remove death penalty' scroll from the store.

[Repriever]

Fear is a lousy motivator. For those who like those kinds of games, though, there's EVE, and a few others. It would probably make people stick to Fed-Ex and other 'safe' quests, and not do instances/go after elites/take chances - because the risk is too high. Wardens wouldn't be able to be crazy and solo all the things we solo anymore, because we'd never get to a high enough level to do them (I'm not saying other classes don't do the same thing, just we're kinda known for this sort of insanity.)

And in a game like LoTRO? A lot of folks would just quit. I don't like to think of just turning 65, doing an instance, and being instantly demoted to 62 from dying because I'd never done the instance, didn't know the tactics, or - and it's not just my computer though in my case that is an issue - there are also lag spikes. Especially in raids.

About the only groups you'd find are ones doing mail and pies in the Shire if there was a heftier death penalty. Even Turbine (I don't think) would be willing to bank on people staying if they sold a pricey 'remove death penalty' scroll from the store.

I think you've missed the point somewhat. This game is incredibly easy already. If you know how to play your class (particularly as a Warden since that's the example you gave) you're not going to die. Ever. As for not taking chances because the risk is too high what level of risk are you talking about? The only difference is you have to think before you act because you know running in blindly all guns blazing will have consequences. I'm not suggesting people actually go down a level through deaths just 'some' kind of penalty might make people think hmm.. I wonder what all those other buttons do?

It would have a knock-on effect in that people walking onto PUGs would be much more aware of what they can and can't do and might even learn to work in a team to avoid any kind of penalty through death. I wouldn't worry, it's never going to happen, I was just bringing it up as one of the reasons so many people haven't learned their class skills: they don't need to.

[Chanah]

I think you've missed the point somewhat. This game is incredibly easy already. If you know how to play your class (particularly as a Warden since that's the example you gave) you're not going to die. Ever. As for not taking chances because the risk is too high what level of risk are you talking about? The only difference is you have to think before you act because you know running in blindly all guns blazing will have consequences. I'm not suggesting people actually go down a level through deaths just 'some' kind of penalty might make people think hmm.. I wonder what all those other buttons do?

It would have a knock-on effect in that people walking onto PUGs would be much more aware of what they can and can't do and might even learn to work in a team to avoid any kind of penalty through death. I wouldn't worry, it's never going to happen, I was just bringing it up as one of the reasons so many people haven't learned their class skills: they don't need to.

Strange. I've got four wardens, know the class pretty well, don't have a problem tanking unless it's an instance that either lags me like crazy or I don't know it or the mechanics at all. If I know not the mechanics, I tell people. Usually it's kin. They don't mind a wipe, and sometimes that happens. If everyone was going to lose experience from said wipe, I don't think they'd be so understanding.

I still manage to die sometimes. Don't like the uber-death penalties. Never helped me learn anything in other games, except to not waste my time with them.

Do I have problems with PUGs? Oh yeah. To the point where I simply don't do them. I've managed to organise kin runs for some of the lower-level stuff, but if you do not have a good kin with a lot of members, even THAT is going to be extremely difficult.

Hence the solo feature. You may be able to play 12 hours per day. Some people get two hours twice a week - they probably don't want to spend all that time in LFG, or worse - taking a risk that they'll die and set back their characters even more.

Plus the game life-cycle - which I mentioned before. With everyone at level-cap, there's nobody around to do the lower instances with, except the occasional PUG (usually from hell). And when folks are THAT bad, they're not going to stick around and try to learn their class from a bigger death penalty either.

It would be a huge loss in revenue for Turbine to do it and a huge turn-off for the Tolkien freaks who make up the die-hard population of the game. So you're right - it isn't going to happen.

If it really did motivate people to stay and learn their classes, most MMOs would do it. Notice that in WoW (last time I was there, it's been a while) the stiffest death penalty lasts 12 minutes, I think?

There's a reason for that. No, I am not saying we should imitate Blizzard more. But not having a stiff death penalty is one of the many reasons for their huge success. As is catering to a casual gaming base. This is even more true in LoTRO - we get a lot of folks playing who wouldn't normally play an MMO because they love the books.

[Pivik]

Fear is a lousy motivator. For those who like those kinds of games, though, there's EVE, and a few others. It would probably make people stick to Fed-Ex and other 'safe' quests, and not do instances/go after elites/take chances - because the risk is too high. Wardens wouldn't be able to be crazy and solo all the things we solo anymore, because we'd never get to a high enough level to do them (I'm not saying other classes don't do the same thing, just we're kinda known for this sort of insanity.)

And in a game like LoTRO? A lot of folks would just quit. I don't like to think of just turning 65, doing an instance, and being instantly demoted to 62 from dying because I'd never done the instance, didn't know the tactics, or - and it's not just my computer though in my case that is an issue - there are also lag spikes. Especially in raids.

About the only groups you'd find are ones doing mail and pies in the Shire if there was a heftier death penalty. Even Turbine (I don't think) would be willing to bank on people staying if they sold a pricey 'remove death penalty' scroll from the store.

The only game I remember that you would lose a level is EQ. In other games you could lose experience but only to the start of the level. In EQ it wasn't that bad anyway. You wouldn't lose a full level unless you died several times in a row. You only lost so much exp per death.

If it was more difficult and people had to group to beat at least some of the content or even think about going into a reputation dungeon at level then you would see a stronger community. People would stay as well, because they would have a sense of accomplishment.

Another common complaint I have seen in the forums is that people have too many skills. There are really not that many skills in this game per class. Some are used more in group some are used more solo. I would actually like to see some more skills for some of the classes especially ones around group play.

It almost seems as though people want to play these games in God mode from doom/hexen/etc. I really don't understand why people sign into an MMO and then never want to group. I can do that with Oblivion.

[Khafar]

People play better and learn their classes more if they have something to lose by dying.

Some do. Others just go play something else. I don't mind harsh penalties - my first and probably still favorite MMO was one in which a "bad death" meant you could lose your best equipment. But I had friends and monarchy members in that game who left specifically because of the death penalty. They loathed it, and it sucked the fun out of the game for them. The same was true of some of the people I played FFXI with - losing XP and sometimes losing a level because you died was infuriating. (I didn't leave because of that... I left because it became so utterly group-centric past my 20s).

I doubt we'll ever go back to seeing many new games with harsh death penalties because the mass market hates that. It might result in more skilled players, but fewer of them. Game companies don't make money off of "skilled". They make money off of "volume" and "retention".

Khafar

[Repriever]

my first and probably still favorite MMO was one in which a "bad death" meant you could lose your best equipment.

Khafar

Was that Ultima Online? I loved that game. And yes I agree with you, we'll never see harsh death penalties in an MMO again. The market's changed too much but if we're brutally honest losing your gear blows bigtime anyway and just is NOT a good game mechanic lol.

[EU_Orc_Bane]

Some do. Others just go play something else. I don't mind harsh penalties - my first and probably still favorite MMO was one in which a "bad death" meant you could lose your best equipment. But I had friends and monarchy members in that game who left specifically because of the death penalty. They loathed it, and it sucked the fun out of the game for them. The same was true of some of the people I played FFXI with - losing XP and sometimes losing a level because you died was infuriating. (I didn't leave because of that... I left because it became so utterly group-centric past my 20s).

I doubt we'll ever go back to seeing many new games with harsh death penalties because the mass market hates that. It might result in more skilled players, but fewer of them. Game companies don't make money off of "skilled". They make money off of "volume".

Khafar

Going by numbers alone, Runescape is the second-highest played MMO in the world. Die in that game and you lose all but three items.

You don't stop playing (I played it for four years), but you do learn to play smart quite quickly.

Personally, I would have no problem with the introduction of a harsher death (0 morale) penalty in Lotro. Coming as I did from Runescape, I found Lotro's 'death' mechanic quite laughable. I understand that, as the hero of your own personal story, you can never really die, but to be able to wade into a camp full of Orcs and not be bothered by the consequences isn't entirely lore-friendly to say the least - unless you are Samwise Gamgee of course, but very few of us are THAT kind of heroic .

[LadyDena]

What I don't get is people who take a comment on why people may or may not have learned how to play their class and somehow twist it into some kind of personal attack on their playstyle or even the kind of person they are.

Look at the title of your thread and you have but yourself to blame. You set yourself up as de facto judge and jury on the good or bad ways to play a particular class, then you asked a question with said presupposition while using non neutral language that just happened to support your own bias. You would have gotten a much better response if you had simply asked "Why do people play their classes in so many different ways?" But of course looking at your rant you weren't interested in any discussion even though you framed your title as a question. Posts like this is nothing but a flame bait, a platform to rant about play style that you don't share, something that is entirely subjective.

Do you go into an art gallery and ask why are some artists so spectacularly bad at colors? Do you walk into a concert hall and ask why some musicians are so spectularly bad at playing their instruments? You wanted to know why some people reacted the ways they did, perhaps you should look at the non neutral way you presented your faux question in your title.



Some people are good at some stuff, some people are bad at some stuff. That's how the world works. Leave the drama at home. Occam's Razor.

[Fankdango]

It seems the blame falls mostly on the solo-ability of the game but as a player with multiple toons and countless hours of play, I can safely say that this is probably the biggest misnomer concerning the inability to play properly in groups. There are two reasons I say this:

1)Players who have a hard time in groups tend to have a difficult time in solo as well. I do like talking to people about their experiences with the game and noticed this correlation. They may not say right away that they had a hard time doing the solo content but if you ask them what color quests they usually pick up as their leveling they tend to only do up to yellow (1-2 levels above) and very often pick blue quests (1-2 levels below). Even with classes that aren't great at solo like burgs and champs, I consistently went for orange quests (even red at times) and only did lower level content and mobs when I felt like completing some deeds and finish some quest lines (especially epics). Some solo instances like "Death from Below" seemed impossible for many of these "more challenged" players but I had no issues with even a burg (they have major disadvantages with this quest because the NPC dwarves are notorious at getting themselves killed).

2)Playing in groups at lower levels is NOT the same as playing at higher levels. I have played over half the classes from level 1 to 65 and try to get into groups at various levels (GB, Weathertop, GA, Dol Dinen, Fornost, School/Lib, FT then the Moria instances). They may have the same basic gameplay (aggro, dps, healing) but the focus and difficulty of each role is vastly different between level ranges because your working with different skill sets and entirely different healing/dps magnitudes. Anyone who focuses on group content at various levels like I have will have noticed this.

Players are bad because they don't focus on being any better. Which doesn't mean that they are incapable of being good, it's just that they aren't good lotro players or don't have the time or energy to be "decent" players.

[Repriever]

Look at the title of your thread and you have but yourself to blame. You set yourself up as de facto judge and jury on the good or bad ways to play a particular class, then you asked a question with said presupposition while using non neutral language that just happened to support your own bias. You would have gotten a much better response if you had simply asked "Why do people play their classes in so many different ways?" But of course looking at your rant you weren't interested in any discussion even though you framed your title as a question. Posts like this is nothing but a flame bait, a platform to rant about play style that you don't share, something that is entirely subjective.

Do you go into an art gallery and ask why are some artists so spectacularly bad at colors? Do you walk into a concert hall and ask why some musicians are so spectularly bad at playing their instruments? You wanted to know why some people reacted the ways they did, perhaps you should look at the non neutral way you presented your faux question in your title.



Some people are good at some stuff, some people are bad at some stuff. That's how the world works. Leave the drama at home. Occam's Razor.

Did you even read my post or any of the ones that followed it? How is expecting players to bring their skills to a group situation flame bait? How is that 'judging' anyone? You say the question should be 'why do people have different playstyles?' are you suggesting that people who ask to be invited into groups then get them wiped because they have no idea what they are doing are just exercising a different playstyle? lol.

As an aside to everyone else...I agree completely with everyone who is saying people who come to groups not having experienced group play but who are willing to listen should be encouraged and given every possible help we all had to learn at some point. In my experience most people in group situations want to learn and want to play their part but are often too shy/embarrassed to ask what they consider to be 'stupid' questions. A simple tell to someone who may be struggling asking if they're okay with everything can never hurt.