LoTRO's new Senior Producer?

[Edrogar]

You don't recall your parents saying things Like "do this or santa won't come to see you?" "Go to bed or Santa will pass you by?" "Santa doesn't come to bad little boys/girls." "

You think you weren't 'paying'? Not all payments are cash.

I also remember that regardless of how i behaved "santa" always left me my presents.

Except for one year when i received a note pinned to my bedroom door that read ... "Dear Edrogar, My apologies but unfortunately there will be no presents this years as last year the rampaging, throat slitting boogyman under your bed nearly had my nuts off, have a good christmas, love santa"

[Rosiebelle]

I did have the advantage of my Grandad being Santa (at various parties, clubs, functions and nursing homes around our area). It took until I was about 9 before I figured out that "Santa" was actually my Grandad. After he died my cousin took on the suit for a few years before the tradition faded.

Anyhoo I don't recall paying my parents for a lifetime sub ...... More like they have had to pay for me!

[NukeTheLag]

I think you misunderstand. No one said there isn't going to be a pre-purchase. We just haven't said when it will be.

I suppose one could make the arguement we haven't announced when we'll start the prepurchase for next year's expansion, too... or the one the year after that, or that....and so on.

One could make that argument, but since it is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand, no one does.

"Honey, what are we having for dinner tonight?"
"Why are you asking me that when we haven't discussed where Junior's going to college in 15 years."

Personally, I hope HD is delayed a good while. It might indicate that Turbine has decided that quality control should be part of its business model, rather than rushing out shovelware by some arbitrary date. So it bothers me not that questions about HD pre-orders aren't being answered.

However, this is obviously important to others and it's a perfectly sensible question. I truly do not understand why the official response is usually strawmen, red herrings, pretending it's been answered when it hasn't, namecalling, etc. Seriously, what other business has this type of customer relations?

[Mysterion]

I think you misunderstand. No one said there isn't going to be a pre-purchase. We just haven't said when it will be.

I suppose one could make the arguement we haven't announced when we'll start the prepurchase for next year's expansion, too... or the one the year after that, or that....and so on.

I stand corrected, there will be at least two more lotro expansions.

I'd rather just know the details about HD so I can budget my entertainment correctly. A new ps4 + games is going to eat into that budget fairly significantly (already launch preorder). Next thing to happen will be a steam summer sale where all budgets are thrown out the window. All of a sudden it will be fall and LOTRO will just not fit into my entertainment budget. Lets be honest, an 80 dollar legendary expansion not including instances isn't out of the wheelhouse by my counts.

I know you're not going to give us any information b/c you have a "time-table" to slop out news to us. I just think your "time-table" isn't very good, April 24, 2013 announce expansion. Make no mention of it at any major gaming conferences. Ignore pleas from internal community for news. You have slowed actual news about the game to a pace that CSTM had to shut their doors. Next will be LOTRO Reporter.

If Microsoft can announce a meeting about their new console in April for the conference in May, I think we should get an announcement about the "time-table". Screw getting news about the expansion, I only want to hear about the "time-table" for releasing news about the expansion. Maybe a new twitter account that just tells us when you modify it.

Or you guys could try and inspire your player base and wow us with how great HD is. Just do the opposite of announcing RoR/Mounted combat and you'll do OK.

[Sapience]

You have slowed actual news about the game to a pace that CSTM had to shut their doors. Next will be LOTRO Reporter.

I try really hard to ignore obvious trolls, but please don't invent things. Merric and Goldenstar gave very clear reasons why they stopped their blog. Helms Deep wasn't on that list.

I was going to answer all your points, but there's no need now that I know facts aren't something you're interested in.

[PoeticNightmare]

You have slowed actual news about the game to a pace that CSTM had to shut their doors. Next will be LOTRO Reporter.

.

Honestly, I would explain why they really stopped the podcast to you, but I have a feeling you actually know the truth and, unlike many others here, are intentionally posting mis-information to support your post because there are those who would believe it.

Heres the true reason, for those who were not CSTM fans; they stated many many times that they are stopping only because their everyday lives are increasingly busy and make it more difficult than ever to keep up the podcast. They've also stated that they still enjoy and will continue to play LOTRO.

[Menathradon]

I suppose one could make the arguement we haven't announced when we'll start the prepurchase for next year's expansion, too... or the one the year after that, or that....and so on.

I'm going to take this and run wild with it.


Sapience just confirmed that lotro won't shut down in 2014, 2015, 2016, but I'm not sure about "and so on."

What does "and so on." mean? How many years does that include??? WE MUST KNOW NOW!!!!!!!!!

[MarkoftheRealm]

I stand corrected, there will be at least two more lotro expansions.

I'd rather just know the details about HD so I can budget my entertainment correctly. A new ps4 + games is going to eat into that budget fairly significantly (already launch preorder). Next thing to happen will be a steam summer sale where all budgets are thrown out the window. All of a sudden it will be fall and LOTRO will just not fit into my entertainment budget. Lets be honest, an 80 dollar legendary expansion not including instances isn't out of the wheelhouse by my counts.

I know you're not going to give us any information b/c you have a "time-table" to slop out news to us. I just think your "time-table" isn't very good, April 24, 2013 announce expansion. Make no mention of it at any major gaming conferences. Ignore pleas from internal community for news. You have slowed actual news about the game to a pace that CSTM had to shut their doors. Next will be LOTRO Reporter.

If Microsoft can announce a meeting about their new console in April for the conference in May, I think we should get an announcement about the "time-table". Screw getting news about the expansion, I only want to hear about the "time-table" for releasing news about the expansion. Maybe a new twitter account that just tells us when you modify it.

Or you guys could try and inspire your player base and wow us with how great HD is. Just do the opposite of announcing RoR/Mounted combat and you'll do OK.

Mines of Moria was announced mid-March of 2008, but pre-orders didn't begin until August 28th and the expansion didn't go Live until November. I see no reason why anyone should be getting anxious about no news at this point. If mid-August gets here with no updates, then maybe it would be more reasonable.

Anything announced will be considered set in stone by the players, and if we're still 4-5 months from launch then many things will still be in flux at this time, while some things that may seem definite right now may turn out to be unworkable in the next month or so. The devs have gotten burnt at the stake by players when things have not panned out as planned before. This lack of news or hints or previews is likely the direct result of this experience; once bitten, twice shy. The Moria time-table should show that the current time-table is not unusual for an expansion that is slotted to release in the fall. You know it's going to release this fall. Go ahead and budget about $50-70 for it.

Turbine already has a rough timetable set up for pre-orders, for release date and probably for announcements, but these are likely dependent on other deadlines being met in development. It is unreasonable to expect Turbine to make their announcements dependent on your wishes as opposed to the realities of the developmental process.

[Sapience]

I'm going to take this and run wild with it.


Sapience just confirmed that lotro won't shut down in 2014, 2015, 2016, but I'm not sure about "and so on."

What does "and so on." mean? How many years does that include??? WE MUST KNOW NOW!!!!!!!!!

LOL.

Well.. how many miles is the road if it goes ever on?

[Coolhandlukeboy]

I still love LOTRO, even though I have been burnt out of the game twice now. My testimony to this is that I have come back twice now. No game has kept my attention longer than any other game. A great part of that is due to being able to delve into Tolkien's universe. This is not merely Tolkien, but LOTRO succeeding in recreating it. I can understand CSTM's closing/turnover due to burnout or real life. May they come back another time with renewed interest!

There are still issues that have not been fixed for some time. At first, they did not concern me, since I wasn't too far advanced in the game yet to care (yes, narcissism, truth be told). However, now with three level 85s and two well on their way. I find myself in the singular [sarcasm for the witty-impaired] position of being at endgame.

I am not a hardcore raider, however, I do enjoy grouping up with others. Unlike the past two xpacs, there is a tremendous lack of interest in this current endgame content. Mostly, it's about collecting seals as quickly as possible. I'm ok with maintaining school/sammy runs. However, the gold item drop is horrific. It would do well to spruce up raids with better loot and better seal returns. Let the soloists/desperate continue with boring school runs for seals. If you loose sight of loot, you loose a lot of players. Loot keeps people eager for more and happy with the past hour they spent in game. If I spend an hour in a raid and only wind up with a modicum of seals (less than if I just did school/sammy runs) then I will/have become disappointed. This disappointment will stack, much like buffs do.

I am rather grateful that the developers listen to our pleas, even if the answer isn't immediate, or impossible. I have a list for no one in particular.

My burglar is useless in raids/instances compared to other classes. Our yellow line is horrid, our ability to survive in raids is horrid. Our blue line is "cute" but not quite too useful to others. We are unnecessary because debuffing is unnecessary. Why debuff when you can straight out dps something to death? Because debuffs are useless, FMs are useless are impossible. Get rid of that stupid little red shield saying immune to coordinated attacks. What else is a raid for, if not for coordinated attacks? The first part, I do expect to be addressed with the class trait trees (fingers crossed), the second is just a testimony to the sorry states of raids, and this is coming from a not-so hardcore raider. Medium armor melee without any ranged skills? Great... we're usually the first to die, even if you know your class well. TaG needs to include tac damage avoidance/resistance. Sure I can solo as a Gambler and enjoy the fact that I know my class. However, instances/raids are an important part of grouping and I want to be needed... instead of people saying: Go get your hunter or cappy.

Hunter's legendaries really need a revamp, as do Captains (IDoME) and I will assume most other classes need this as well.

I think a serious look at Kinship revamping is in order. I am heartened by the housing revamp and eagerly look forward to it. This makes me anxious as to whether a kinship revamp will happen!

[Eartholloth]

This makes this a hot-topic thread because Sapience has stated numerous times that he does not read threads in this forum. It was probably complete chance that he came upon this thread and was simultaneously struck by the fact that he was being called upon to answer a question...

I don't know where you got that...

[Lohi]

MoM release date announced, October 9, 2008
MoM goes Live, November 18, 2008

I think this bit here is important. Ie, the release date was not months in advance, and certainly not half a year. I think some of the recent expansions announced the release too soon.

[Lohi]

No announcement for future releases after HD could be read that there won't be one.
...
I wouldn't expect details, but maybe an official hint at a region for next year's release could be provided

But they've never done this in the past. Why this year suddenly is it of vital concern? The "license is expiring" is not a new issue either, it has happened in this game in the past as well. The game is not going to die suddenly and Turbine is not keeping the imminent death a secret.

[Eartholloth]

I try really hard to ignore obvious trolls, but please don't invent things. Merric and Goldenstar gave very clear reasons why they stopped their blog. Helms Deep wasn't on that list.

I was going to answer all your points, but there's no need now that I know facts aren't something you're interested in.

I have to say it's pretty sad & pathetic how people have taken the CSTM announcement & twisted it to there own liking just totally ignoring what has been said.

[Coolhandlukeboy]

I don't know where you got that...

It was a test in a person's ability to detect sarcasm. You have failed the test. But don't worry, there will be others. Think positively!

[Khafar]

Why announce an expansion if you are not ready to talk about anything that is coming with the expansion.

Because they know they're shipping an expansion, but they don't know precisely what will and will not be in it yet. This is hardly uncommon when there's a fixed shipping window for a release, and it's much, much better to hold of on talking about stuff until you're sure that it will arrive in good shape in time for the launch.

Turbine has made this mistake repeatedly, where they provide details about LIs long before they're ready and they disappoint lots of people with what made it in, announce instances which arrive "closed" for a month or more due to bugs, announce a raid that then gets pushed off by several months because it's not ready, announced a new PvMP map (twice!) which was then cut for schedule, etc.

If they're finally getting more cautious about what's announced when, that's great. Under-promise and over-deliver is immensely better than the converse.

Khafar

[Damojo]

Why announce an expansion if you are not ready to talk about anything that is coming with the expansion. The announcement was over 2 months ago and all we know now is the exact same as we knew 2 months ago. In fact most of what we know about Helms Deep is the very basic stuff people expect from Turbine ie level cap rise, new landmass and a continuation of the epic story. The only other thing is that you can start contributing to the war effort from level 10 but we have no more info on how.

So why make an announcement on 24th April and then say nothing for over 2 months, why not wait till you have a little bit more to say.

Turbine doesn't announce an expansion for 2013 - cue rumours the game is dead, from the usual sources, just like there has been about licence extensions.

Turbine announces an expansion for 2013 - complaints we haven't seen every single detail of said expansion, months before it's release.

The words "can't" and "win" spring to mind. There's no magical third way of doing this, they either announce (and get criticised), or don't (and get criticised). The only thing this proves is it's easy to stand on the sidelines & criticise.

[Mysterion]

I try really hard to ignore obvious trolls, but please don't invent things. Merric and Goldenstar gave very clear reasons why they stopped their blog. Helms Deep wasn't on that list.

I was going to answer all your points, but there's no need now that I know facts aren't something you're interested in.

*I had a longer probably more interesting post that was lost thanks to the forum auto logout on submission. Love the forums BTW, they work very well.

So the line is mentioning a fan-site that stops their site/podcast. Now I know. Also, I am aware of the reasons they left. I refused to listen to a 4 hour podcast about it, but listened leading up to that monster.

These are the press releases about LOTRO

http://www.lotro.com/en/news/press-releases

That's it. Don't strain yourself too hard releasing information to your community and fan base.

For a thriving MMO, that is weak. Turbine should get better at PR, take some classes go to a conference, hire somebody to do it...something. Some games release new content at a two week cadence. We can't even get news about new content in a time-frame that uses the word weeks. I'm sure the forums keep you busy, but I think you could get your overlords to speed up the process. Considering the betas for RoR and RoI were in July and they were both fall releases, the clock seems to be ticking away on this whole HD being a fall release. May be that will be your first new press-release since April, "Helm's Deep which you know almost nothing about will be a 2014 release".

Sarcasm aside, I'd really like to know how much HD costs and what is included. Apparently steam sale starts tomorrow and with a new console I'm not sure an expansion for LOTRO is going to compete with the new shinies. Keep in mind I do not live and breath LOTRO like most forum goers (and fanbois which this community is packed to the gill with). This is my secondary MMO by a large margin. And for me MMOs take a back seat to tent-pole releases on console/pc. LOTRO isn't going to compete with other fall gaming purchases by the looks of it, I'd have preferred the prepurchase to open up in June.

[JTollers]

Sapience,

Is there a wall or FAQ that shows who the main devs/designers or team that work over certain topics, material, roles? This may help folks to understand the structure.

Or, you all answered very well the structure of how things get fixed. Visuals for these that lay it out categorically can help people visualize it more as well.

I know how much you all do to communicate, but I believe there are ways the quantity can be adjusted for methodology focus. Most of my kin's peeps have been here for 6 years, we're still confused and I comb these forums and post links like you do for them so that they don't have to comb.

[Sapience]

I have to say it's pretty sad & pathetic how people have taken the CSTM announcement & twisted it to there own liking just totally ignoring what has been said.

It does make me feel bad for them. I'm used to people doing it to things I say or other employees say, but to do that to a pair of fellow players who did only good for the community? I think it says much about those doing the twisting and make it clear how to view their comments moving forward.

Sapience,

Is there a wall or FAQ that shows who the main devs/designers or team that work over certain topics, material, roles? This may help folks to understand the structure.

A few years back we made a post about how we were changing the way the team works. We mentioned how the idea of a "X dev" was going away in terms of a given dev working exclusively on one thing and only that thing for long periods of time. Like a RK dev that only did RK work. The change meant the entire systems team was responsible for changes and while a given dev might be assigned to do the actual work, the process was a bit more distributed.

That's still true today. I could probably put together a team list of what teams work on what, Like Systems works on classes and Content builds quests.

[bohbashum]

I could probably put together a team list of what teams work on what, Like Systems works on classes and Content builds quests.

that would be a cool question for the 20Q after the one this month I wouldn't want to encrouch on there personal lives (names and such) too much though. but it would be nice to see who works on stuff, when the class revamp comes out it's better to know it's that teams work, and not just your own dev who could make or break the class :P

I was playing TeamFortress2 offline this morning as our internet was down -_- but stumbled across a valve commentary section about how they all work together to make sure balance is working. it just makes sense the more I think about it.

Why announce an expansion if you are not ready to talk about anything that is coming with the expansion. The announcement was over 2 months ago and all we know now is the exact same as we knew 2 months ago.

while there working on class revamps they can quickly note back to these forums to make sure fears don't come. I wouldn't be surprised if they planned for it to be close to WoW tree's then realize they needed there own LOTRO tree system so players felt happy. not to mention the class threads that were opened up, there not going to pick a suggestion and go off that, but those few suggestions that have very good points make sure the devs makes sure the ground work is right. like captains made it extremely clear they wanted to buff well in all trait lines, not have a dps line, buffer line, healer line kinda thing. so I would think the captain devs have made sure the captain always has buffing as a natural to the class. like LM/burg has stuns, hunter has ranged, minstrel has annoying songs :P

[Mysterion]

Because they know they're shipping an expansion, but they don't know precisely what will and will not be in it yet. This is hardly uncommon when there's a fixed shipping window for a release, and it's much, much better to hold of on talking about stuff until you're sure that it will arrive in good shape in time for the launch.

Turbine has made this mistake repeatedly, where they provide details about LIs long before they're ready and they disappoint lots of people with what made it in, announce instances which arrive "closed" for a month or more due to bugs, announce a raid that then gets pushed off by several months because it's not ready, announced a new PvMP map (twice!) which was then cut for schedule, etc.

If they're finally getting more cautious about what's announced when, that's great. Under-promise and over-deliver is immensely better than the converse.

Khafar

A lot of games are announced and then news about them gets released regularly to the press (enthusiast usually), sometimes years in advance. They demo the games at trade shows and generally try to keep interest in the game going until it is released for sale. Turbine announces an expansion that is to be released in the Fall in the Spring. They give 0 information beyond that for months, which it has been since the press release. I'd be hard pressed to come up with another instance where news about it was handled the way Turbine is handling HD. I get that they don't want to announce expansions are included, rip them out, give them back with TP to silence the masses again, but this is silly how little we know.

[MarkoftheRealm]

A lot of games are announced and then news about them gets released regularly to the press (enthusiast usually), sometimes years in advance. They demo the games at trade shows and generally try to keep interest in the game going until it is released for sale. Turbine announces an expansion that is to be released in the Fall in the Spring. They give 0 information beyond that for months, which it has been since the press release. I'd be hard pressed to come up with another instance where news about it was handled the way Turbine is handling HD. I get that they don't want to announce expansions are included, rip them out, give them back with TP to silence the masses again, but this is silly how little we know.

Mines of Moria, announced March 14
MoM, Beta begins August
MoM, pre-orders begin August 28
MoM, release date announced October
MoM, releases November 18

There, you have another situation where not much happened for 3+ months after initial announcement.

[robo7425]

Mines of Moria, announced March 14
MoM, Beta begins August
MoM, pre-orders begin August 28
MoM, release date announced October
MoM, releases November 18

There, you have another situation where not much happened for 3+ months after initial announcement.

During that period, there was a website with mini-games that rewarded an in game item. I think additional info about the expansion was posted there also.

[bohbashum]

A lot of games are announced and then news about them gets released regularly to the press (enthusiast usually), sometimes years in advance. They demo the games at trade shows and generally try to keep interest in the game going until it is released for sale.

a demo is usally a horrible thing for the developers. to put a pretty mask on there no way near finished product just so someone people can hype it up in there own mind. so many games have gone down (including whole publishers going bankrupt) trying to release demo's AND the game in a completely unreasonable time frame. thats why you normally have demo's that don't even play anything like the real game (portal haveing lodes of death traps).

not getting a demo or information shows to me that the team are aloud freely to test and work on there project, with some degree of crunch time, but much better managed. I expect this a very good idea for an mmo that needs to progress very rapidly. if lotro or even WoW had to make a demo or real gameplay footage for every expansion I think they'd either be bankrupt, horrible demo's or a horrible game that might look pretty but played like a .....