The epic in Update 18 is simply sublime (potential spoilers - read at your own risk).

[Erennor]

Now after having seen all the battle and moments of story-telling, though I will write about this in further detail and more extensively in a future post, I thought to share my observations and musings now while this is still new.

I will not cover everything in this post but what came to mind at the time.

Strengths

• Visuals
• Immersion
• Music
• Animations (not all animations-read further below)
• (Some) Voice-overs

First I have to say that I was very pleasantly surprised and in awe when I saw that they have managed to make this look -and to a good extent, feel too I deem-, very much like the greatest battle of our time. The visuals of the armies scattered throughout the Pelennor successfully convey the great scale of the battle (or at least give the illusion of it) and I believe that this does not leave Tolkien readers disappointed when it comes to that: to seeing this very great in numbers war brought to life, and also feel that you are with your character in the 'thick of it'.

The way they have portrayed Minas Tirith in wreath of black clouds and smoke.. as soon as I saw it woke in my mind Aragorn's words: 'Minas Tirith is burning'. When I saw hundreds (if not thousands maybe?) of the Riders of Rohan that is likely enough the most spectacular moment I have seen in all my years in LotRO. To see that they can render so very many npcs, it is just a wonder to behold! Truly exceptional. And those moments when you hear the Rohirrim sing and cheer at Theoden's unforgettable speech; the moments when we hear voice overs such as 'To the King!'; the moment when King Theoden uses the horn and right before that the music fittingly halts to give more attention to that sound... It was brilliant. Such an evocative moment, (or a Big T moment as Turbine says).

This (the atmosphere and presentation of the battle field, and the immersive nature of it) was something very important to capture and I am glad that they have done so. I said earlier that I was surprised, because of the constraints of time that Turbine had recently with the whole affair of the new datacenter and the consolidation of the servers, and all the issues that came after that, and as we know they have been reduced in staff numbers twice since the game begun.

Now about animations. Has anyone else noticed how believable and movie-like some animations are? I say this in a good way of course, for likely enough the game can never reach the level of same animations seen in the movies. And yet, we see here in the distance, almost identical (at least as it seems to me) animations for the movements of the Mumakil, and also the flying Nazgul. The moment with Golodir, there we see very realistic movements and in general all his animations, even the moment to how he stumbles a little after he falls down from that Troll-like creature. Supreme. Well done. Truly. We are not used to this in LotRO (if indeed we have ever seen such animation before) so this was simply a great treat.



Weaknesses /improvement details

• Animations
• Short Duration
• (Some) Voice-acting
• Dialogue Text
• Golodir's fall

The charge of the Rohirrim is undeniably for many the most iconic, thrilling, exciting, and momentous moment in the story and doubtless this is owed in part to the movie-scene, and thus naturally setting the expectations very high indeed not only among LotRO players, but to others too from without the game that are movie fans but may have not yet tried LotRO.

And yet a weakness in the game is this: too short. The ride of the Rohirrim it seems lasts only about two minutes from the moment you follow the summon till the the loading screen starts when you are about to join the battle. This is one of the most powerful moments, if not the most in terms of battle-moments, and emotion too (at least in the War of the Ring timeline) and yet in-game it is too brief. The movie scene has it in about five minutes (and yet people do not get tire of re-watching it, which is telling enough) and in the books, I cannot now recall how long it takes but it is surely not so brief. It leaves you feeling that you wanted to experience that moment a little more. It was passing by fast, when it could have been a little more.

And if some players bring the argument of having many alts and so would not like this to be any longer because they will redo it many times, well, that is in a sense a selfish way of thought, for it does not take into account others too: of all the new players to the game and the others who have not yet experienced this for the first time.

Golodir's fall. Everything seemed so well in that scene, everything till before the very end: the way Golodir passes away, does not fit in the moment, at least the way it is executed. It makes you laugh as it seems funny rather than sorrowful and dramatic.

About the animations, I have included this here too because some other moments/close ups leave much to be desired. For example Eowyn's stand against the Witch-King; it is somewhat medium level of skill at best, especially when we can now see how realistic LotRO's animations can be with the scene of Golodir. More to say here but I will leave it there for this post as it is already too lengthy.

Now regarding the dialogue text: in brief, a part of the speeches from the books have been omitted or/and altered. This is simply very disappointing, and after all why not use it when it is there in all the masterfully done manner of writing of Tolkien?

It is one thing when we fill in the blanks and grey areas in the books (in a respectable manner), that is all right as I see it, but another when it is clearly written in the book. Do not mistake me, the story-writers and MoL have done, as always, a most excellent work, but who can reach further than the skill of the author himself and the whole emotion those words bear?

I think the most evident example of this is the words of Eowyn and the Witch King:

'Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!'

A cold voice answered: 'Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye." ~ Witch King

'Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may.'

'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'

'But no living man am I! You are looking upon a woman. Eowyn am I, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin.' 

'Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'


And in the game:

'Begone carrion-lord! Leave the dead in peace!'

'Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey. You will know worse things than Death in the Chamber of the Eye.'

'It is nothing to me, still I will hinder you.'

'Say you so? No living man can hinder me!'

'But no living man am I. You look upon a woman! Eowyn I am, daughter of Eomund! You stand between me and my lord and kin.'

'I will smite you if you touch him!'

There are some other things too that I want to write about but will save them for a future day.

All in all, with the limited resources and number of staff they have, truly great work indeed. But there is enough room for improvement.

[OldMadeOfLions]

On another topic, regarding Galadriel's prophecies...

Warden, Guardian, and Beorning are all satisfied by this update but don't get specifically called out with VO text because that would have interfered with the timing of the animations and VO for the actual scenes. When so many of these turned into major sequences, it became impossible to give them the standard Galadriel Vision treatment. I think it was worth the trade-off, but if I had it to do again I'd probably have chosen some less-significant moments to call out in 2008.

MoL

[The_Jagannath]

... One of the things we know about Gothmog is that his primary weakness is his inability to refuse a challenge...

It's true. He suffered from extreme bouts of Marty McFlyism! :O

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Warden, Guardian, and Beorning are all satisfied by this update but don't get specifically called out with VO text because that would have interfered with the timing of the animations and VO for the actual scenes. When so many of these turned into major sequences, it became impossible to give them the standard Galadriel Vision treatment. I think it was worth the trade-off, but if I had it to do again I'd probably have chosen some less-significant moments to call out in 2008.

MoL

I thought this might be the case, although its a tad disappointing - but yea, I can understand why having the resurgence of Galadriel's prophecy half way through the death of Théoden (for instance) wouldn't have worked too well - and those scenes were so good that I wouldn't want anything to ruin them. But at least your confirmation means that we now know where these moments refer to - I'm now eagerly anticipating the minstrel one (not that I have a minstrel at cap, but the location it hints at is somewhere I very much want to see...)!

[Irin19]

-This post will be full of **SPOILERS** so please do not read if you have not done the last Epic quest -

Dear MoL, other content creators, game developers, and Turbine as a whole,

It is very late here in the UK so this post will probably filled with my usual typos and such but I can't go to bed without first telling you what I think about this last chapter in the Epic quest in LOTRO. I have been a fan of Professor Tolkien for most of my life and I have been playing this game since its launch in 2007. You people have just gave me the best gaming day on my life so far ( I say so far because the Epic quest will go on) . As I sat at my computer, reading every word, listening to every sound, feeling every emotion, I found myself tearing up so many times because of the sheer realistic immersion you have created. The story/text of the whole quest would make Professor Tolkien happy , there are no doubts about that. I know it is not always easy for you folk but you did it! You created something in a video game on the same emotional scale as Peter Jackson's Pelennor Fields and of course, the book. Even if this game was to shut down tomorrow ( which I know it wont ) you will forever associated with your adaptation of one of the greatest stories ever written , be happy and proud.

For me the first magical moment started when I met Horn again in Vol. IV. Book 5: What It Means to Fight - once again I was taken by the vulnerability of this amazing character. The whole quest and text are filled with deep feelings and emotions that moved me to tears. I found myself INTO the game, it was just like been there and even if not fully voice acted I could almost hear Horn;s voice talking to me about Nona and his love for her and his difficult choice. Amazing and superb story writing ! 10/10 and on top of that the whole new region is absolutely stunning in atmosphere. The Wild Men are amazing, the sounds effects in the Rohirrim encampments so realistic, riders snoring , sharpening of blades and more.

And so I was unable to stop , I had to continue, the Epic was red for me at this time, I was still lev 100, I did not care, I had to do it, I knew I could not rest until the end. And so I found myself in the presence of Théoden King making his famous speech to the riders. I WAS THERE! In game, on my horse with the horsemen listening to their king. I never experienced anything so powerful while playing a video game before . I felt a rush of adrenaline when Théoden King cried : "A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!" and "Ride to Gondor!" . I was not a player anymore, I was in a battle , a real one. When Théoden King felt down mortally wounded under his horse Snowmane I was in tears. I could not believe what I was seeing. Minas Tirith finally in the sun, white and beautiful and around me the greatest battle, thousand enemies, trolls, oliphaunts. Was this really happening ? And there she comes, my hero, the most amazing woman in Middle-earth, strong and fearless....EOWYN. Ok yes I will say it, I cried again and more, the whole cinematic of her facing The Witch-king. By now I knew why am I still so passionate about this game, it is because of this, it is because despite all that is thrown at you, you folk still make me feel like this. Thank you for making my hero Eowyn so beautiful and so brave in your adaptation of Tolkien's story.

But if I thought this was the end of the emotional roller-coaster I would be soon proved wrong. The battle kept raging all around me, and the stories kept coming. Aragorn joining the field of battle and the Rangers. Horn 's bravery and regrets and then of course Golodir. Holy Moly...that was awesome , the animation, the dialogues, the story. And for the first time I felt sad because I realized things will one day come to an end just like Golodir and his story. Bravo! What else is there to say to a perfect quest and story line ? I am really sorry, I am not very good with words and it is very late for me, but I had to tell you how I feel . I realized I was actually talking ( for real ) to the characters in game , reading out laud the text and dialogues . And when the end of the battle and of the Epic came I was left breathless , still tearful and unable to leave the field. I just stood there between Aragorn and Gimli just telling to myself I truly fought alongside the Free People to save Middle-earth. What else is there to say about a perfect quest and one awesome gaming day I will never forget ?

Those little green words at the end are the best words I heard today : TO BE CONTINUED

I cant wait for more. So Thank You, to all of you for giving me this day and this experience, it was worth waiting nine years just to be here today and live what I just lived .

Well Done ! <3

I hate to say it, but I experienced the same feelings as you. Never have I ever been so fully immersed in a part of a video game as I was during this epic. I also did it at 100 on my LM because I simply couldn't wait. Yeah the mobs were red, but between debuffs and water lore I was fine. I didn't even need blue line.

I have to admit, the charge of the Rohirrim was awesome, I read the books, saw the movie, but there I was IN IT! Outstanding.

Golodir's fall hurt, I had 9 years of emotions come storming back, I think the thing that hurt me most was that Mordirith just ran off... I wanted him DEAD, not a little dead, but ALL DEAD!

MoL, you need to somehow make this accessible via the reflecting pool, I want to experience it again!!

[LagunaD2]

So, what was wrong with the exchange between Eowyn and the Lord of the Nazgul as written by Tolkien that required "improvement" with lackluster filler written by someone at Turbine?

[OldMadeOfLions]

So, what was wrong with the exchange between Eowyn and the Lord of the Nazgul as written by Tolkien that required "improvement" with lackluster filler written by someone at Turbine?

Nothing at all, of course, except that we have a limited number of lines that we can use verbatim. I'd have thought that would have been obvious by now, considering how much we exercise our paraphrasing muscles.

MoL

[LagunaD2]

Nothing at all, of course, except that we have a limited number of lines that we can use verbatim. I'd have thought that would have been obvious by now, considering how much we exercise our paraphrasing muscles.

Really? Wow. There are times when paraphrasing makes sense, for brevity and/or clarity, and doesn't degrade the quality of the material. This isn't one of them.

Aragorn isn't speaking normal words to Gothmog -- he's speaking with the voice of prophecy and espousing his claim over the False King of Angmar/(Possibly) True King of Gondor. Speaking of the new age and proclaiming that there is no place in it for Gothmog or his master, he is ascending to the kingship and denying any claim that Gothmog might make, and Gothmog has been so shaken by this point (mostly by Halbarad) that he is not able to dispute it. Aragorn's first action as the king-to-be is uncontested.

If you consider giving a long-winded speech to the guy who just murdered your best friend before your very eyes "action"...seemed more like all talk and NO action to me.

Why not strike down the murderer standing right in front of you, who also happens to be commander of the enemy army, first, and THEN give a nice speech over his rotting corpse? That seems like a far better way to "ascend to the kingship" and "deny any claim that Gothmog might make".

[Warmutkan]

Nothing at all, of course, except that we have a limited number of lines that we can use verbatim. I'd have thought that would have been obvious by now, considering how much we exercise our paraphrasing muscles.

MoL

@LagunaD2: I assume what MoL means here is that they're only legally allowed to directly quote X number of lines. If Tolkien wrote a stirring speech that's just too long (it's Tolkien, after all), it doesn't matter what we want. If it's a legal limit, their hands are tied.

[Xhiu]

But why? The text is all there and I really don't see any difference of reading it here, on the forums, or over there.
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Ques...Road_to_Battle

Anyways, as both of my eligible characters have told Halros to come along with the Grey Company, I was wondering what happens during "On a Field of Red" if Halros stayed behind. If anyone has that sort of information, I'd apreciate it!

• I can't go back and re read it like I could a book, or redo the quest unless it was an *cough* Interlude.
• I can't read one wall of text then go back to a previous guy and ask him again what he said.
• The typeface is too small for me to read from 8' away.
• The monitor is 42" and that tends to give me a headache when I'm too close.
• I duo most of the epic, which is annoying cuz I have to frequently break fs to finish a section. When you duo you want to read a short bit then move on. Both of us read slow and its annoying to stop and wait for someone else to read the text while you have finished and wait for the next step.

Finally, and most importantly, if I had the texts to read off line I could enjoy them more as all else, /k, /wd, TS/skype, the birds, the art work, the Npc's walking around or orcs running through camp. I don't pick up a book while I'm on my way to battle orcs or run some hides from one side of the game to the other.

Also, all these reunions are great story. MY eternal problem is this isn't a book or even an audio book. It is a VIDEO game. I would have loved to have some of these stories, last-time-on-lotro, are one sided I'd love to see the actual incidents. I want to see the arguments. I want to see a dramatic confrontation. Thats why I am here. I don't have a problem with catching up on the reunion of friends bonded through adversity. I don't have a problem with conversation. These are a series of monologues. Nobody talks like this. I love dialog but I'm strange like that...

Dev1: Well I'll be! What are you doing here?
...: Did ya miss me?
Dev1: Hellya. But really what are you doing here? Visiting?
...: No, they realized that they can't live without me. I fetch the best coffee.
Dev1: You got rehired??
Devish: Not yet. Then again maybe not at all. They called me and asked for a meeting. No explanation.
Dev1: Wow, it is so good to see you. How's the dog?
Devish: eh, well... Kitty got doggie cancer and we felt the best thing was to let her take another path.
Dev1: I'm sorry to hear that. She still owes me a burger from the last bbq.
Devish: Ha! I remember that. What about you?
Dev1: I'm good. Tired of the pressure from some people on the forums. There is this one old lady that said she was going to get me on the ballot in California. I thought she was joking but 2 nights ago I got a robo call from the Republicrats about what a bad person I was.
Devish: That sounds like the glass cutting lady.
Dev1: Might be. So are you going to take them up on the offer if you get one?
Devish: Don't think so. I've got a lot of stuff going on right now.

But thats just me. Will probably never happen.

[LagunaD2]

@LagunaD2: I assume what MoL means here is that they're only legally allowed to directly quote X number of lines. If Tolkien wrote a stirring speech that's just too long (it's Tolkien, after all), it doesn't matter what we want. If it's a legal limit, their hands are tied.

I understood that. I was surprised that:

A) Such a limit is imposed on a paying licensee, and
B) The limit is so low that it precludes representing even a very short scene faithfully

[Amorey]

I understood that. I was surprised that:

A) Such a limit is imposed on a paying licensee, and
B) The limit is so low that it precludes representing even a very short scene faithfully

As far as I know the licence only allows Turbine to use names and the story that can be found in The Lord of the Rings books and appendixes , but they can't just take the text from the book word by word and copy/paste in game, but they can make their own adaptation/version , so a few famous quotes from the book can be used, others need to be original creation by Turbine , this is one of the reasons why very few of Tolkien's original poetry and songs are used in game...although we can hear a small extract of Tom Bombadil's song in the Old Forest when we meet Tom for example

[Beorthnoth]

I understood that. I was surprised that:

A) Such a limit is imposed on a paying licensee, and
B) The limit is so low that it precludes representing even a very short scene faithfully

Turbine's license is based on the film and media rights in the Lord of the Rings sold by Tolkien in the 1960's to enable him to pay the tax arising on his royalties from the books. Copyright in the text of the books remains with the Tolkien Estate and his publishers until 70 years after his death, which is in 2044, assuming that the copyright is not renewed or extended before then. There is a fine borderline between fair quotation and copyright infringement, and given Christopher Tolkien's a) distaste for any medium other than the printed word and b) his litigiousness, you can hardly blame Turbine for exercising a degree of caution here.

[Ogmios]

MoL, you need to somehow make this accessible via the reflecting pool, I want to experience it again!!

+1 (and two, and three and four and . . . )

[LagunaD2]

Turbine's license is based on the film and media rights in the Lord of the Rings sold by Tolkien in the 1960's to enable him to pay the tax arising on his royalties from the books. Copyright in the text of the books remains with the Tolkien Estate and his publishers until 70 years after his death, which is in 2044, assuming that the copyright is not renewed or extended before then.

Yes, I understand all that too.

The fact that the use of dialog from the books does not fall under the original movie license is what is surprising.

One might think that the owners of the IP would prefer to see its artistic integrity preserved, rather than being compromised by bad third-party material spliced into it on a line-by-line basis.

I suppose, in the end, it simply comes down to money.

[Vellrad]

Don't tell me that Horn escaped suffocation in a mountain of mumakil dung and still lives?

I hated Horn since I met him, and the only thing that didn't made me go insane with his dumbness was though that he will die in Pellenor and I will be happy.
But unfortunatelly, turbine made it a death from certain poinf of viev. "Vader killed Anakin"-like fail.

Horn is killed.

Damn, now I regret dragging this poor boy from where he was.

[Urwendil]

First of all, thanks for the explanation. I could glimpse it in retrospect but the explanation of the thought process coming from the author in detail is definitely welcome.

One of the difficulties with designing this sequence is that everything needs to happen slow enough for it to be understandable and able to sink in, but fast enough that it doesn't feel like everyone is standing around doing nothing, and it could be that we didn't tighten it up enough to strike that balance. I don't think any of the Rangers could have saved Halbarad from the one strike Gothmog landed in anger, but I also think that Halbarad knew what he was doing, did it intentionally, and died knowing that both his life and his death were successful in bringing Aragorn to the fate that all of the Rangers swore to help him achieve.

In MMO terms, Halbarad was the tank in that case and had all the hate -- imagine what would have happened if Gothmog's mighty strike had been aimed at Aragorn instead.

This is it. The way the instance played unfortunately didn't stand up to what was designed in this case. A different spacing, maybe Halbarad stepping forward and getting himself face to face, maybe even some kind of distraction for the others... could help it come out better.

Golodir's imprisonment by and defiance of Mordirith/Gothmog was obviously influenced by the story of Húrin against Morgoth and I see a similar mechanic here between Halbarad and Gothmog. However, although I'm totally sold on the intent especially after your detailed explanation, the material realization of the scene is far from satisfactory.

To repeat once again, these were an excellent pair of epic books. Well done and thank you!

[Urwendil]

MoL, you need to somehow make this accessible via the reflecting pool, I want to experience it again!!

+1 (and two, and three and four and . . . )

Yes please!

[Laire]

Finally finished it last night.

Loved:

• The music! I want to know which soundtracks were used throughout Pelennor, they were absolutely epic. Where can I get these songs?!
• That you changed Imrahil's voice. I would love to hear this Imrahil through the rest of Vol 4, too. He sounds so much better.
• Eomer seeing the Black Ships and your character's reaction to it. Very good, very well written.
• Halros and what your decision did here. Clever, MoL. For those who do not know, Horn lives if you brought Halros, and Halros takes his place if you did not-- Halros saves him and sacrifices himself.
• The Golodir scene for the most part, it was well written.

Did not love:

• Most of the voice acting. Horn and Imrahil were the best, the others... yea. There are a ton of good voice actors here in California, please use them instead. :P
• The ending Gothmog scene with the Rangers seemed too slow, because it seemed the characters could have stopped him. I would have preferred the 'whirly head' animation instead to show that we COULD not stop him. Because it was really slow.
• Aragorn should have done his speech in whirly-head mode. I do not think he would have let Gothmog get away. That way it makes Aragorn seem more powerful-- that he is physically stunned, but he still is going to stare the Enemy down. I really, really think this instance would be improved if everyone was swirly-headed by Gothmog-- makes everyone literally helpless and makes Aragorn just seem more awesome that he is not afraid, and that Gothmog is.
• WHERE ARE ALL MY OTHER BELOVED RANGERS?! Haha I know, limited time, but we have to catch up with ALL of them (or at least see them!) in the next book! In my head-canon Daervunn gets wounded which makes him unable to go to the Black Gate and he gets all angry about it, haha. Basically similar to what I presume will happen to Radanir. Daervunn's one of my favorites, though, I was sad not to see him.

The inability to use most of Tolkien's dialogue is unfortunate but something I've known for years, ever since Gimli's amazing line from their leaving Rivendell was taken out.

A lot of the animation seemed clunky, too, but that I attribute from these models basically being around 2006-2007 technology. A shame, but oh well.

And where on earth is that darn Lorien Elf?! Hahaha.



Overall, while there are a couple things I think you could do to make the last instance seem more powerful, you did a very good job with what legal and technological limitations you have. Well, well done MoL. I really enjoyed it, I actually got goosebumps! Well done.

[OldMadeOfLions]

I would love to hear this Imrahil through the rest of Vol 4, too. He sounds so much better.

We retroactively changed Imrahil's earlier VO lines too, so they use the new actor. No more 'Faramir's wooooooonds!' in Book 4, for instance.

MoL

[Urwendil]

We retroactively changed Imrahil's earlier VO lines too, so they use the new actor. No more 'Faramir's wooooooonds!' in Book 4, for instance.

MoL

That's good news, thank you!

[Sinkhan]

We retroactively changed Imrahil's earlier VO lines too, so they use the new actor. No more 'Faramir's wooooooonds!' in Book 4, for instance.

MoL

Well i guess i have to hand it to you MOL. People really like the epic line it seems. I haven't done it yet. Why? Because i hate questing. Lets face it, most quests suck. Go pick up this, go deliver that, go tell so in so my reply. Most of the quests in this game are nothing but boring, menial, unfun tasks designed for no other apparent purpose than to waste a players time. It's like you guys just have some arbitrary number of tasks to make and just fill the list with go fors and fetch me's until you reach the quota.

Go kill 10 of this (about a thousand of these quests in game)
Go kill 8 of that (about 800 of these quests)
Go pick up 5 of this (about 900 of these quests)
Go pick up 3 of that (about 400 of these quests)
Click on 5 catapults to destroy them (about 50 of these quests)

I don't even read quests anymore, never. I just click them and then check that map to see where i have to go to finish them. I'm glad people like the epic line, for me, questing in this game is the biggest bunch of worthless #### i'v ever done in any game.

[Gilean-EU]

Well i guess i have to hand it to you MOL. People really like the epic line it seems. I haven't done it yet. Why? Because i hate questing. Lets face it, most quests suck. Go pick up this, go deliver that, go tell so in so my reply. Most of the quests in this game are nothing but boring, menial, unfun tasks designed for no other apparent purpose than to waste a players time. It's like you guys just have some arbitrary number of tasks to make and just fill the list with go fors and fetch me's until you reach the quota.

Go kill 10 of this (about a thousand of these quests in game)
Go kill 8 of that (about 800 of these quests)
Go pick up 5 of this (about 900 of these quests)
Go pick up 3 of that (about 400 of these quests)
Click on 5 catapults to destroy them (about 50 of these quests)

I don't even read quests anymore, never. I just click them and then check that map to see where i have to go to finish them. I'm glad people like the epic line, for me, questing in this game is the biggest bunch of worthless #### i'v ever done in any game.

Playing the game however you like is of course entirely up to you, but LOTRO has always been about stories (quests and especially Epic questline), and there are many great stories "hidden" in those quest texts. But in any MMO that has hundreds and hundreds of quests (thousands actually), of course there are all kinds of "fetch this, bring me that" -quests as well.

You say basically that questing in LOTRO is the worst you have ever done in any game, and if we take obvious exaggeration aside, it makes me wonder what kind of games you normally play than, and why you are playing LOTRO? And what activities you like in LOTRO if you hate all questing? For me, killing mobs one after another, seemingly endelessly is boring, or running the same instance over and over again, is boring as well, but hey, we are all different I guess

[The_Jagannath]

... For me, killing mobs one after another, seemingly endelessly is boring, or running the same instance over and over again, is boring as well, but hey, we are all different I guess

Unless it's an ''Epic'' Battle. Those are ok in your book.

[Gilean-EU]

Unless it's an ''Epic'' Battle. Those are ok in your book.

Yes, but not because of killing mobs one after another. Epic Battles are ok in my book because they are pretty much the ONLY end-game content that is solo AND gives better rewards than average solo quest (RNG aside...). Although since U18, those are not "end game" anymore...