@Vastin

[Riddim The Legend]

Dear Vastin,

I am curious to know, when are you planning to work on our beloved class? Were there any plans at all? If there is anything in process, even a little, would you be so kind and share the little that you have?

Thank you,
Z

[Joedangod]

The current hope is that they skip Beornings for now. It just doesn't make much sense to target them with the next bout of changes.

Much better off doing RK/Captain/Burglar with the next round of balance work and leaving Beorning to a balance update by itself.

[siipperi]

The current hope is that they skip Beornings for now. It just doesn't make much sense to target them with the next bout of changes.

Much better off doing RK/Captain/Burglar with the next round of balance work and leaving Beorning to a balance update by itself.

Agreed. Imo beorning needs 3x trait lines overhauled like guardian red line. Just throw everything to trash bin. Start with fresh ideas and give several new skills. Beorning has just dreadful rotation.

[Riddim The Legend]

The current hope is that they skip Beornings for now. It just doesn't make much sense to target them with the next bout of changes.

Much better off doing RK/Captain/Burglar with the next round of balance work and leaving Beorning to a balance update by itself.

Of course, I agree with you. Beornings need the most work though I was being a tiny bit curious if they already have some ideas for the future

[Oelle]

One thing I hope for is an end to constant formdancing. Both man and bear form should be good for something different. switching between them twice each 6 seconds as a healbear, just to get an aoe heal out on cooldown isnt funny, especially not with the time switching needs.
For example, man could be ST and bear could be AoE, each in healing, dps and tanking.
Or man could be direct and bear could be DoT/HoT and for tanking, one could be higher morale where the other has higher mits or avoidances (I'd say bear more morale, man higher avoidance).
I just dont want to dance stances all the time.

[Morphails]

One thing I hope for is an end to constant formdancing. Both man and bear form should be good for something different. switching between them twice each 6 seconds as a healbear, just to get an aoe heal out on cooldown isnt funny, especially not with the time switching needs.

Can't really say I agree with that. I personally find that the stance-dancing is what makes Beorning healing so interesting, and I'm honestly hoping yellow line just gets a few QoL changes that don't impact the rotation. Sure, the stance-dancing makes healing a lot more complicated, but if I wanted an easier rotation I'd just roll a Minstrel. Beorning is now also the strongest raid healer, so I'd say yellow line is in a pretty good spot at the moment.

That being said, red and blue line do indeed need man form to become somewhat useful instead of straight up inferior.

[Riddim The Legend]

In my opinion yellow line bear form skills cost too much. Bears really only have 2 healing skills and their CDs are too long, 1 burst rotation and you can be in trouble. We either need more skills or reduced CDs

EDIT: Technically bear form has 3 heal skills, Relentless is currently bugged so can be a little annoying at times. Recuperate from blue line would make it the 4th skill but it's only a self heal unless used with Nature's Bond, leaving bear a little too weak for a short time

I will spend some time trying to make adjustments to the 3 lines and post it here possibly today

[Riddim The Legend]

This is what I have in mind, a few out of many needed changes, shall we have a discussion?



I swapped Vitality with Fate, Fate gives Tactical Mitigation which is more important for PvE rather than PvP, PvE requires a higher number, Vitality on the other hand is a good buff of PvP, a little change but a few points saved could give us a few additional points to use elsewhere

Piercing Roar swapped with Physical Mitigation, Piercing reduces outgoing damage from enemies, possibly not a bad buff while tanking, could also be a change that with a little tweak could work, Physical Mitigation is again, beneficial for PvP rather than PvE

and Recuperate swapped with In Harm's Way, I believe that In Harm's Way is a very good buff, especially great for saving someone from dying, Recuperate should be a little higher, would still cost a little of trait points but for what it heals it's better to move it upstairs

[Joedangod]

What exactly is that accomplishing? Blue gets nerfed survival, yellow (the most durable healer already) gains survival abilities.

[Riddim The Legend]

What exactly is that accomplishing? Blue gets nerfed survival, yellow (the most durable healer already) gains survival abilities.

Most, if not all PvE content requires Tactical Mitigations, Physical is only really needed in PvP, Yellow line doesn't really offer a permanent defensive buff. Pretty much my only reason

[Joedangod]

Most, if not all PvE content requires Tactical Mitigations, Physical is only really needed in PvP, Yellow line doesn't really offer a permanent defensive buff. Pretty much my only reason

There's little to no reason for the stuff you want to move into Blue to be in Blue though. You're actually just nerfing both lines considering the value a yellow Beorning can get from Harms Way. I really don't understand why you're moving traits around rather than just replacing the useless ones we already have i.e. the additional recuperate traits and/or piercing roar.

[Riddim The Legend]

There's little to no reason for the stuff you want to move into Blue to be in Blue though. You're actually just nerfing both lines considering the value a yellow Beorning can get from Harms Way. I really don't understand why you're moving traits around rather than just replacing the useless ones we already have i.e. the additional recuperate traits and/or piercing roar.

I am not sure about the blue line but yellow line wouldn't really get nerfed, yes, In Harm's Way would go lower but Recuperate + +5% Phys Mits would only give benefits, but I do understand what you mean, what would you do in terms of trait tree?

[Joedangod]

I am not sure about the blue line but yellow line wouldn't really get nerfed, yes, In Harm's Way would go lower but Recuperate + +5% Phys Mits would only give benefits, but I do understand what you mean, what would you do in terms of trait tree?

I probably wouldn't do much to the trees. A couple of traits could stand to be replaced (the recuperate nerf trait, composure, piercing roar) but most of the work should probably be devoted to the individual skills. Perhaps set it up so every skill has a man form and bear form variant of it. I'd also strip the cross-group healing from Yellow; can't balance things to be a competitive fellowship Healer with it and it's not great as a raid healer unless you either don't need much healing for your group or you have a bear in each group healing.

In general though.... I don't really know what I want. I think it'd be kinda neat for yellow healing to be HoT based in man form, burst in bear to produce a kind of hybrid of Minstrel and RK. I'd like man form to be a mediocre DPS (with a decent wrath building rotation) that pops bear form for a semi-frequent high DPS burn cycle. For tanking I like the damage stagger idea that some people have been floating around, would be neat to have a tank that gets aggro fairly easily but has to focus on defence in order to survive. Most of that isn't really trait tree stuff so much as it is skill reworks.

I'd also like tank/heal legacies for LI weapons. The all stat weapon is funny but dumb.

[Riddim The Legend]

I probably wouldn't do much to the trees. A couple of traits could stand to be replaced (the recuperate nerf trait, composure, piercing roar) but most of the work should probably be devoted to the individual skills. Perhaps set it up so every skill has a man form and bear form variant of it. I'd also strip the cross-group healing from Yellow; can't balance things to be a competitive fellowship Healer with it and it's not great as a raid healer unless you either don't need much healing for your group or you have a bear in each group healing.

In general though.... I don't really know what I want. I think it'd be kinda neat for yellow healing to be HoT based in man form, burst in bear to produce a kind of hybrid of Minstrel and RK. I'd like man form to be a mediocre DPS (with a decent wrath building rotation) that pops bear form for a semi-frequent high DPS burn cycle. For tanking I like the damage stagger idea that some people have been floating around, would be neat to have a tank that gets aggro fairly easily but has to focus on defence in order to survive. Most of that isn't really trait tree stuff so much as it is skill reworks.

I'd also like tank/heal legacies for LI weapons. The all stat weapon is funny but dumb.

As I only play yellow line I can agree with you 100% on all those points, I would like Rejuvenating Bellow to only heal group members, not out of group players, it is kinda dumb, the idea about HoTs in Man form and burst in Bear form sounds really cool, I'd say for yellow line at least wrath cost should be reduced and maybe CDs for bear form heals, I am pretty happy with bears heals as they are but CDs sometimes trigger me, if even -1 sec...

[Joedangod]

I'd say for yellow line at least wrath cost should be reduced and maybe CDs for bear form heals, I am pretty happy with bears heals as they are but CDs sometimes trigger me, if even -1 sec...

Probably don't need bear form tweaked much so long as you actually have something to do with man form. There's a general problem on Beorning where man form exists purely to fuel bear form, it holds no real value by itself.

Personally I'd say each line could do with being tweaked in terms of how it manages man form and bear form. For yellow the whole "stance-dance" aspect of it right now works quite well and I'd like to see it stay as is. Redline really needs man form buffed (and perhaps wrath generation nerfed) so that you can do decent DPS if you stayed in man form alone...but going into bear form gives you a damage spike when it comes around*. For tanking I'd be happy to see Bear form essentially become the only form, no stance-dancing or CD popping to hulk out...just you being a big ### bear trying to reduce the damage you receive.

* Had a random thought that it would be kinda cool for DPS Beornings to spend a while building up their wrath until they hit wrath cap...and then they launch into a Bear form rage where wrath perpetually gets drained at a steadily increasing rate and they have to try build wrath with their attacks in order to maintain the form. Could be a pain to balance but damn would the gameplay feel epic.

[Pavlin]

Agreed. Imo beorning needs 3x trait lines overhauled like guardian red line. Just throw everything to trash bin. Start with fresh ideas and give several new skills. Beorning has just dreadful rotation.

So another X years then...

[laughatdo0m]

Start with the bugfixes (there are enough of them to keep a couple devs busy).

In my opinion though, yellow bear is close to fine. I agree with Joedangod that bears should not be able to heal everyone around them; limit the heals to fellowship/target only. That way the numbers can be improved to make bears into reliable healers for smaller content too. Bond of trust should be changed; but right now thats the only reason people starting bringing bears into raids). Can we mark it so Mark of Beorn can't be BPE'd or Resisted (make it function like captain marks)?
Red bear needs the guardian treatment. I also don't know why at the bottom of red bear tree is one of the most potent self-heals in the game (with current morale pools).
Blue bear needs a real identity. Without the ability to block they will never be able to get the crazy amount of partial BPE's guards, captains, wardens, and even blue champions get; which makes it hard to ever bring a bear as a tank. It feels like the only thing blue bears have going for them is Thunderous Roar and traiting deep down into red for Composure.

I would request the imbued legacies get updated to include unimbued parts; or do away with the unimbued legacies and include the buffs into the skills themselves.
Unimbued Call to Wild Duration (+10s) becomes Call to Wild Physical Mastery (+7300 mastery for 15s during a 2m cooldown...).
Unimbued Thickened Hide Duration (+10s) becomes Thickened Hide Tactical Mitigation (+7300 tact mit for 15s during a 2m cooldown).
Unimbued Bee Swarm Duration (+6s) becomes Bee Swarm Critical Defense Debuff (-7300 crit defence, less impactful than base champion rend).
Unimbued Rush Duration (+10s) becomes Rush Evade Rating (+7300 evade rating for 12-20s pending trait, 1m cooldown).
Unimbued Grisly Cry Duration (+4s) becomes Cry Damage (+29% damage on our two cries).

[Wolf2x]

I agree on that Yellow line is close to being somewhat viable. Even on boss 3 in Abyss raid its usually a safer choice to get a Beorning instead of a 2nd Mini. Just fix the awkward bugs of the trait line and that should be enough

Though if the Yellow bear will stay the same, then the mechanics on some of the future raid/instance boss fights should fit Beorning healing, just like it did in Abyss raid. Which means either the group has to be on the move and/or getting punted (Non-induction heals) or the incoming damage on the fellowship should be equally high on majority of people (aoe heals)

For Blue and Red however, I hope they give some serious love.

[FastPablo]

"One of the longer-term requests we have heard from you is a desire to take a holistic look at our ten classes. This is a challenge for our relatively small team, so we had to take a look at how best to bring this to you. Instead of a comprehensive overhaul of each class, one at a time, we will instead make targeted adjustments to many classes at once, and continue these incremental improvements over future updates. This allows us to improve all of our classes in a shorter time frame and better balance power and group utility in a more responsive way. You can expect the first wave of class adjustments to happen in the coming months, and continue for some time to come. "

In all fairness, they have said they would be working on them little by little. If this is true, Beorning will get it's turn soon.

[Vastin]

As many of you have correctly guessed, the Beorning was delayed because we felt it needed a more substantial rework than most of the rest of the classes.

Nevertheless, I hope to get to it before too much longer, unfortunately I'm currently tied up with a bunch of non-class work that I have to wrap up before I can get back to them.

-Vastin

[Cenifh]

As many of you have correctly guessed, the Beorning was delayed because we felt it needed a more substantial rework than most of the rest of the classes.

Nevertheless, I hope to get to it before too much longer, unfortunately I'm currently tied up with a bunch of non-class work that I have to wrap up before I can get back to them.

-Vastin

well this is gg for the class rework then. It has been delayed for so long now that I'm sure we gonna get them along with the EU servers we were promised once but it turned out to be a stunt.

I'm ok with being bussy with other stuff, but I really hate the lies. If it's not coming in the next month then stop saying it's coming just to give us another "sorry, we need to delay" yet again.

[elzeqq]

As many of you have correctly guessed, the Beorning was delayed because we felt it needed a more substantial rework than most of the rest of the classes.

Nevertheless, I hope to get to it before too much longer, unfortunately I'm currently tied up with a bunch of non-class work that I have to wrap up before I can get back to them.

-Vastin

Yeah this is really dissapointing. Not to mention we were promised a multiboss raid this year including a instance cluster, turning out instance cluster to be skirmishes and multiboss raid a single boss raid. We are constantly being shown that casuals/rpers -> raiders in terms of lotro environment.

It's really sad to see a great game like this being managed by such incompetence towards end-game raiders, i feel really bad for everyone who still plays this game. I tend to not be pessimistic until the very last but I feel like this game is going downhill big time.

[Fraushgrish2]

Yeah this is really dissapointing. Not to mention we were promised a multiboss raid this year including a instance cluster, turning out instance cluster to be skirmishes and multiboss raid a single boss raid. We are constantly being shown that casuals/rpers -> raiders in terms of lotro environment.

It's really sad to see a great game like this being managed by such incompetence towards end-game raiders, i feel really bad for everyone who still plays this game. I tend to not be pessimistic until the very last but I feel like this game is going downhill big time.

We needed a raid and an instance cluster...we got abyss and naerband....Ssg has proved countless times that they dont care about the BETTER players, that being raiders of course

[canyouaddcolour]

As many of you have correctly guessed, the Beorning was delayed because we felt it needed a more substantial rework than most of the rest of the classes.

Nevertheless, I hope to get to it before too much longer, unfortunately I'm currently tied up with a bunch of non-class work that I have to wrap up before I can get back to them.

-Vastin

It's kind of disappointing as Beorn is the class that's been most neglected since it's release and as a result that means it's going to take even longer for it to get a balance pass. =/

Hopefully it's not too much longer.

[Happychappy]

I probably wouldn't do much to the trees. A couple of traits could stand to be replaced (the recuperate nerf trait, COMPOSURE, piercing roar) but most of the work should probably be devoted to the individual skills. Perhaps set it up so every skill has a man form and bear form variant of it. I'd also strip the cross-group healing from Yellow; can't balance things to be a competitive fellowship Healer with it and it's not great as a raid healer unless you either don't need much healing for your group or you have a bear in each group healing.

In general though.... I don't really know what I want. I think it'd be kinda neat for yellow healing to be HoT based in man form, burst in bear to produce a kind of hybrid of Minstrel and RK. I'd like man form to be a mediocre DPS (with a decent wrath building rotation) that pops bear form for a semi-frequent high DPS burn cycle. For tanking I like the damage stagger idea that some people have been floating around, would be neat to have a tank that gets aggro fairly easily but has to focus on defence in order to survive. Most of that isn't really trait tree stuff so much as it is skill reworks.

I'd also like tank/heal legacies for LI weapons. The all stat weapon is funny but dumb.

Just curious as to why you would change Composure and what to? considering other classes have % heals also like Hunter 2x, Guardian 2x and RK for example.

As for Beornings being the most durable healer, to be truly effective they need to be in melee range thus increasing chance of death. Encouraging strike, Raging blow for example. A Captain sat in heavy armour may well be the most durable healer when they get their rework anyway.