Forum & Website Overhaul

[krypto182]

I am going to be frank the website and forums are antiquated!! We need a completely new website and forums. There are many MMORPG that have been around far longer then LOTRO that have far superior websites. The newer versions of vBulletin will run circles around this version. Also hosting the website and forums in the cloud would be the way to go and should offer a huge performance boost. I know Cordovan has said it would love a website and forum overhaul when can we reasonably expect that to happen.

Thanks

[Cordovan]

Yup, no one here disagrees with you. It's a pretty big project, though, and resources have just not been aligned in a way to make this happen. So, no ETA.

[Thurallor]

Sorry, but it won't ever happen. SSG just doesn't have the money. There will always be some higher priority to allocate scarce resources to.

Previous thread: https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/show...postid=7966021

(Just my opinion, of course.)

[Cordovan]

Sorry, but it won't ever happen. SSG just doesn't have the money. There will always be some higher priority to allocate scarce resources to.

Previous thread: https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/show...postid=7966021

(Just my opinion, of course.)

Respectfully, I disagree. While a full web site overhaul may never happen, we do have a formal intention to move to vBulletin Cloud and archive the current forums to become read-only. Obviously there are some questions that need to be answered and prepared for, one of the biggest being community acceptance of having to start fresh, and not have their names saved. We would also permanently unhook your game log in credentials with your LOTRO forums credentials.

[Boraxxe]

Respectfully, I disagree. While a full web site overhaul may never happen, we do have a formal intention to move to vBulletin Cloud and archive the current forums to become read-only. Obviously there are some questions that need to be answered and prepared for, one of the biggest being community acceptance of having to start fresh, and not have their names saved. We would also permanently unhook your game log in credentials with your LOTRO forums credentials.

I don't like that Idea at all...it's like throwing history in the trash.
Within a few months all 13 years of Forum banter will be lost in space. (Well, maybe some has been lost already since the last forum revamp).
I appreciate being able to go back and review/research all that data.
It will quickly become lost like cuneiform, which at least took several hundred years to get lost.

Maybe that's just the way-of-the-world now.
Here today, gone tomorrow.

There must be some way of making it "read-only" and still keep it a click away from access.
If you can do that (and you actually do it) then I might not start a violent, bloody revolution. But it's a close thing...my patience grows thinner with the years.

For thirteen years I have had ONE solid thing I can count on. I can go to the LOTRO Forums site and find something I was thinking about, or reminiscing about.
OK, there might be more than ONE solid thing...but that is an important one.

I can make a new name.
Separating log-in credentials and Forum credentials is a good thing.

What exactly does "archive the current forums to become read-only." mean?

I am concerned about that.

Will we be able to quote stuff from the "archived" forum?
Will we be able to post a link to threads in these archives?

[krypto182]

I don't like that Idea at all...it's like throwing history in the trash.
Within a few months all 13 years of Forum banter will be lost in space. (Well, maybe some has been lost already since the last forum revamp).
I appreciate being able to go back and review/research all that data.
It will quickly become lost like cuneiform, which at least took several hundred years to get lost.

Maybe that's just the way-of-the-world now.
Here today, gone tomorrow.

There must be some way of making it "read-only" and still keep it a click away from access.
If you can do that (and you actually do it) then I might not start a violent, bloody revolution. But it's a close thing...my patience grows thinner with the years.

For thirteen years I have had ONE solid thing I can count on. I can go to the LOTRO Forums site and find something I was thinking about, or reminiscing about.
OK, there might be more than ONE solid thing...but that is an important one.

I can make a new name.
Separating log-in credentials and Forum credentials is a good thing.

What exactly does "archive the current forums to become read-only." mean?

I am concerned about that.

Will we be able to quote stuff from the "archived" forum?
Will we be able to post a link to threads in these archives?

"archive the current forums to become read-only." That means that they will probably keep the old forums just like they are now but in a read only state they will disable account creation and disable the abilities for users to post new threads or reply to old ones. The old forums would not disappear they would be there for historical reference only. Also a lot of the great threads could be reposted in the new forums with a note about it being from old site. If they are going to make a new forum the best way to do it is to start from scratch and not transfer over the user databases and all the posts. You would not have all those unused accounts sitting in the database and hogging up great usernames. There are many user accounts that have not posted since 2007 or ever even posted at all. The performance of a cloud based new forum would be a night and day difference and would be more secure as well as your game credentials would not be linked to the forums. Well yes there will need to be discussions I am all for a brand new forum. Cordovan and team would love it as well as you can see from his post. From and administration standpoint and a user standpoint the newer versions of vBulletin are just going to be better and work better with modern browsers and be an all around better experience.

[LabadalofDorlomin]

I think that the experience does need updating but at what cost?

Archiving these forum pages > well the last time we did this was in the world consolidation and obviously even though it is just down the page and can be accessed it still lost its raison d'etre. This is one step further in that it will I'm guessing, not be incorporated into the new forum at all and will be stand alone. Therefore linking will not be possible and so just a copy paste which will make anything used that way open to abuse.

Fresh start - forum names and dates > well if these cannot be rectified by some kind of database upload then you folks need to think seriously about what that will mean. I will hazard a guess that it will be a huge detriment to yourselves and the community as a whole. I have been playing since 2008 and a lot of folks have invested even more time from prior to launch. I think it is a disgrace that you would even consider a solution that erases someones yearly investiture when they see how long they have been playing.

Names > have we not learned from the pain of server consolidation and now from the Bombadil transfer issues. No way can you allow a fresh start of naming. Imagine the screaming and gnashing of teeth when someone who has had their name for 13 years gets it "stolen" (yes that is what it would be) from them by a newb or someone who thinks it is funny to grief by taking someone else name.

Come on Cordovan, we all want a better experience and I'm sure you want it to deliver that better experience especially so folks on small devices get a cleaner and more mobile visibility but as I said above "At what cost?"

You need! to find a solution whereby we do keep our names and forum dates as a minimum. If this is cost prohibitive then I would prefer to stay where we are.

[krypto182]

Fresh start - forum names and dates > well if these cannot be rectified by some kind of database upload then you folks need to think seriously about what that will mean. I will hazard a guess that it will be a huge detriment to yourselves and the community as a whole. I have been playing since 2008 and a lot of folks have invested even more time from prior to launch. I think it is a disgrace that you would even consider a solution that erases someones yearly investiture when they see how long they have been playing.

Names > have we not learned from the pain of server consolidation and now from the Bombadil transfer issues. No way can you allow a fresh start of naming. Imagine the screaming and gnashing of teeth when someone who has had their name for 13 years gets it "stolen" (yes that is what it would be) from them by a newb or someone who thinks it is funny to grief by taking someone else name.

Well I have done a forum move before on another website. They had it setup in the user transfer to only transfer over usernames that had actually made a post within like the past 5 years. Usernames inactive longer then that or accounts that had not made a single post did not get transferred over the users also retained there original join date on the new site. Also the old forum would will still be there for reference I don't think they would ever delete that I am sure they will find a solution but like he said I don't think this will be happening in the near future. But they need to do something eventually.

[krypto182]

There might even be plugins and template modification they could do to allow you to quote stuff from the old site.

[Devolved]

I don't like that Idea at all...it's like throwing history in the trash.
Within a few months all 13 years of Forum banter will be lost in space.....

Having experienced a couple 'total loss' cases on Kobold-side, both forum-wide and thread specific, I can say it does royally suck to lose that history. Even if 'archived', it still sinks deeper into the virtual dust becoming harder and harder to find.

Sadly, it seems the only things that never seem to go away on the interwebs is the stuff you wish actually would disappear.

-----

Edit: Forum handles. When you come to know people by a particular name for years, that name uniquely identifies the real person behind the screen. I *firmly* believe everything possible should be done to preserve each person's current identifier in any move forward.

[Elmagor]

We have so many errors/lags with forum in last years. If turning this forum in current state to archive read only state means we can login on forum without encountering error page 10 times, people must pay that price.

[auximenes]

I am mostly concerned about losing access to all of the existing posts and losing my join date.

[Fealhach]

It's time to move forward and create new history. The past is done and over, these forums are tired and stale and are becoming a barren wasteland. How many ex-code masters go back and look at the old archived website? Not many if any I would say. After a year or two will many here do the same?

Worried about keeping a name? I'm sure they can come up with some sort of solution. That said, how many active forum users are there now? and while some are attached to their forum identity others might jump at the chance to created a new identity. You can always note your past identity in your new forum posts.

Worried about losing some of the creative and informative posts on this forum? Recreate them anew, updated with new vigour and enthusiasm on the new forums. Most if not all of those old informative posts are obselete and out of date with information long past the point of being any use anyway. A new forum will allow players to get all the latest up to date information and stop people having to search through years of out of date stuff. Anything still relevant can be copied over and stickied in the relevant forums.

And while we are at it the Website needs dragging into the Fourth Age as well. The game might be 13 years old, but if we are to stay alive and attract new players, we need to have a site that reflects that we are looking to the future and not stuck in the past. New images, videos, new pages on characters and places, this needs to happen too.

Get it done SSG!

Cheers

[Boraxxe]

I just had an idea.
Let's say we actually do lose our Forum ID, (someone decides they want your name and sort of steals it from you) maybe we can have access to the sub-line (the line right below your name) and have the option to put in our former name?

Like this:

Decrepit
(formerly: Boraxxe)


I don't like it much, but it's at least a way to let folks know who is spewing worthless gibberish again.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

A new forum be nice, been waiting awhile, the current one is starting to turn into SLOTRO, while other places are fast moving,

[krypto182]

It's time to move forward and create new history. The past is done and over, these forums are tired and stale and are becoming a barren wasteland. How many ex-code masters go back and look at the old archived website? Not many if any I would say. After a year or two will many here do the same?

Worried about keeping a name? I'm sure they can come up with some sort of solution. That said, how many active forum users are there now? and while some are attached to their forum identity others might jump at the chance to created a new identity. You can always note your past identity in your new forum posts.

Worried about losing some of the creative and informative posts on this forum? Recreate them anew, updated with new vigour and enthusiasm on the new forums. Most if not all of those old informative posts are obselete and out of date with information long past the point of being any use anyway. A new forum will allow players to get all the latest up to date information and stop people having to search through years of out of date stuff. Anything still relevant can be copied over and stickied in the relevant forums.

And while we are at it the Website needs dragging into the Fourth Age as well. The game might be 13 years old, but if we are to stay alive and attract new players, we need to have a site that reflects that we are looking to the future and not stuck in the past. New images, videos, new pages on characters and places, this needs to happen too.

Get it done SSG!

Cheers

Exactly cheers as well

[auximenes]

Under no circumstances would I want to give up my username.

[OghranNasty]

Under no circumstances would I want to give up my username.

Even if it means staying with this outdated, broken, security hazard of a forum?

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Under no circumstances would I want to give up my username.

I think on a new forum you can keep your name just use same username when sign up?

[Cordovan]

I just had an idea.
Let's say we actually do lose our Forum ID, (someone decides they want your name and sort of steals it from you) maybe we can have access to the sub-line (the line right below your name) and have the option to put in our former name?

Like this:

Decrepit
(formerly: Boraxxe)


I don't like it much, but it's at least a way to let folks know who is spewing worthless gibberish again.

That seems pretty easy to do by enabling user use of the title creation system.

I get that the name thing is a serious pain point, but ultimately we cannot reasonably do both; either we start with a new forum, or we keep the old one. We want to not have to incorporate literally 3-4 different account management systems, some of which are historical objects contributing to the very issues people are experiencing on LOTRO.com and the forums, into vBulletin Cloud, among other reasons. Especially if our goal is to permanently remove the attachment between your game account and your forum account.

I think in reality "most" regulars here will not have an issue getting their name. We can make deliberate name-sniping-to-harass/troll a forum offense and deal with it on a case by case basis. Assuming most are willing to log in relatively quickly after the change was made and grab their name, few will run into issues. Meanwhile, seriously thousands if not tens of thousands of names will be freed that have been dead for more than a decade and newer. Yes, you'll have to grab your name, but since most "forum regulars" log in with enough frequency to get the job done, I suspect it'll be more of a worry than an actual issue.

[maartena]

Meanwhile, seriously thousands if not tens of thousands of names will be freed that have been dead for more than a decade and newer.

Can we do this on the game worlds as well? Not delete the characters, but issue a mass rename for all characters that have not logged on since e.g. Jan 1st 2011?

There are likely a lot of old, old names that people might want to use, but they left the game a decade ago.

[Hephburz-2]

Can we do this on the game worlds as well? Not delete the characters, but issue a mass rename for all characters that have not logged on since e.g. Jan 1st 2011?

There are likely a lot of old, old names that people might want to use, but they left the game a decade ago.

In most cases GMs will happily allocate you the name for use if you submit a ticket and the person has been offline for whatever amount of time meets their criteria, as I did this recently because there was a name I wanted.

[SavinDwarf]

I am going to be frank the website and forums are antiquated!! We need a completely new website and forums. There are many MMORPG that have been around far longer then LOTRO that have far superior websites. The newer versions of vBulletin will run circles around this version. Also hosting the website and forums in the cloud would be the way to go and should offer a huge performance boost. I know Cordovan has said it would love a website and forum overhaul when can we reasonably expect that to happen.

Thanks

I think a new Forum in the Cloud has some huge advantages, and a number of issues:

Advantages -
1) SSG can speak to the community even if the data center is down!!
2) Performance should be much improved.
3) Backup and recovery is no longer an issue/worry for SSG
4) New features and modern look
5) Users would be able to link to their emails for alerts (if they wanted)

Disadvantages
1) It is very unlikely that information can be migrated from the current forums. So they could be left up READ ONLY and then its a new beginning.
2) Everyone will need to get their ID again because migrating the login IDs is just not reasonable - not to mention 95% of the ids are probably dead.
3) People need to get use to the new forums (and yes some will complain)

[Cordovan]

I think a new Forum in the Cloud has some huge advantages, and a number of issues:

Advantages -
1) SSG can speak to the community even if the data center is down!!
2) Performance should be much improved.
3) Backup and recovery is no longer an issue/worry for SSG
4) New features and modern look
5) Users would be able to link to their emails for alerts (if they wanted)

Disadvantages
1) It is very unlikely that information can be migrated from the current forums. So they could be left up READ ONLY and then its a new beginning.
2) Everyone will need to get their ID again because migrating the login IDs is just not reasonable - not to mention 95% of the ids are probably dead.
3) People need to get use to the new forums (and yes some will complain)

I agree with you. Some of the concerns over the disadvantages combined with a ton of required work taking away available time to do it by the people who need to do it is why it hasn't yet been done. We do, however, currently intend to do this at some point in the future when everything aligns.

[Thurallor]

Some of the concerns over the disadvantages combined with a ton of required work taking away available time to do it by the people who need to do it is why it hasn't yet been done.

And that won't change, IMO. There will always be a "game-breaking issue du jour" that is (and should be) a higher priority for scarce human resources than fixing the forums which, besides the flakiness, are entirely adequate. The forums are, after all, ancillary to the product, and non-revenue-generating.

Who among us would think it's justified to spend two man-weeks migrating the forums, while we still suffer with major bugs that interfere with actual gameplay? I guess this work is well-suited for outsourcing or contracting (being unrelated to the company's core expertise). But if you're going to put an engineer on it, I'd rather you have him dig into the existing source code and just fix the problem. It's probably something very localized that can be quickly fixed, once identified.