Will SSG understand Soon(tm) that making empowerments bound is going to destroy the game?

[sapienze]

Largely it is the same 12 people posting complaints with the odd new or old player joining in. It's likely those regulars are instantly recognized and thrown into the category of "Don't they ever shut up !" leaving the forums left to reside as a home for jetsam never to be listed on any accountants sheet.

It's hard to make a stand as an individual when the impact of their statement has no value to the recipient. There is a remedy for this. Actually several, but the one I elude to involves getting your associates to express their dismay here as well.

Unbound Scrolls of Empowerment is an exploit? Ha Ha that's a whole new level of WHAT?!

[Elmagor]

Yet . . . nobody needs solvents right? LOL, why do you think those sites exist then? It's because solvents are used in large numbers in the game. Think about it now, and remember what you posted earlier.

Because we don't fully move on to next content. When more people get access to Elderslade less players need to have T4/T5 essences because they can't get T6 essences. Those sites exist because 1)We have people who don't want to earn something, and accept to steal something 2)SSG just small company who can't close them. Just imagine, if you have access to T6 essences, why you bother with T4-T5 essences?

[Cordovan]

*snip*

Unbound Scrolls of Empowerment is an exploit? Ha Ha that's a whole new level of WHAT?!

I did not say this; it is an overly condensed misinterpretation of what was said. Even if one of the motivators for the change was to prevent fraudulent actors from doing things that were a serious issue, that could not be characterized as "unbound scrolls is an exploit."

[wrath247]

I did not say this; it is an overly condensed misinterpretation of what was said. Even if one of the motivators for the change was to prevent fraudulent actors from doing things that were a serious issue, that could not be characterized as "unbound scrolls is an exploit."

Would it be possible to ask what those issues were? or get more specifics into the exploits you guys were thinking off?

As far as most ppl seem to understand it's selling SOEs at high prices in the AH, or having alt accounts follow during grinds. Some clarification would be nice.

[ItaOperor]

I did not say this; it is an overly condensed misinterpretation of what was said. Even if one of the motivators for the change was to prevent fraudulent actors from doing things that were a serious issue, that could not be characterized as "unbound scrolls is an exploit."

Very interesting comments there.

So you are suggesting that there were more motivators in place other than preventing an exploit? Could you elaborate on what those are?

Also you say 'if' which would also suggest that preventing an 'exploit' wasn't the reason for the change.

Finally 'I did not say that unbound scrolls is an exploit' - so are unbound scrolls an exploit or not? Some have become bound and not others - any comments on why there's a difference?

[Braer]

This is where the kick back comes?

Yeah the problem with kicking back only on the obvious it just gives credence to every other post. That's the problem with the truth.

[Cordovan]

Would it be possible to ask what those issues were? or get more specifics into the exploits you guys were thinking off?

As far as most ppl seem to understand it's selling SOEs at high prices in the AH, or having alt accounts follow during grinds. Some clarification would be nice.

We can't really get into specifics of our anti-fraud systems nor methods by which fraudsters attempt to do their thing, sorry. The regular standard player economy of the Auction House wasn't a factor in this decision, however.

[wrath247]

We can't really get into specifics of our anti-fraud systems nor methods by which fraudsters attempt to do their thing, sorry. The regular standard player economy of the Auction House wasn't a factor in this decision, however.

That's fair. Company policy and all so can't really say beyond what is possible, but at least we know the AH had no part in it.

[Cordovan]

Very interesting comments there.

So you are suggesting that there were more motivators in place other than preventing an exploit? Could you elaborate on what those are?

Also you say 'if' which would also suggest that preventing an 'exploit' wasn't the reason for the change.

Finally 'I did not say that unbound scrolls is an exploit' - so are unbound scrolls an exploit or not? Some have become bound and not others - any comments on why there's a difference?

I can't think of a time where the particular binding status of an item was or was not an exploit; how the unbound or bound item was then used might well be. Generally, if there is an item that is supposed to be bound and is not, that isn't an exploit, but rather a serious bug fix depending on how the item became bound or unbound in the first place. If we failed to make something bound, we'll fix it, if players found a way to make something unbound, that is more likely an exploit, but again it is the behavior not the item nor its innate binding status that is the issue. For the elaboration, similar to what was said in the video, we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future, and changes we make today that can help prepare us for the future are things that we will be looking at.

[Braer]

It's only the most palatable motivator that we will ever get to hear about. It's abundantly obvious it isn't expected to fool all of us not even many of us, but usually just not quite enough sadly.

[Thornglen]

I can't think of a time where the particular binding status of an item was or was not an exploit; how the unbound or bound item was then used might well be. Generally, if there is an item that is supposed to be bound and is not, that isn't an exploit, but rather a serious bug fix depending on how the item became bound or unbound in the first place. If we failed to make something bound, we'll fix it, if players found a way to make something unbound, that is more likely an exploit, but again it is the behavior not the item nor its innate binding status that is the issue. For the elaboration, similar to what was said in the video, we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future, and changes we make today that can help prepare us for the future are things that we will be looking at.

I think one of the issues with the recent change is, without that serious work done on the LI system, it more fully exposed some of the flaws in the current system rather than move us closer to a solution. At least from the player experience side of things.

I recently had a discussion about the scroll changes and was arguing that the changes themselves make perfect sense to me (other than things like the levels not matching up very well and there being gaps in acquisition for about 15 levels, but those are being tweaked in subsequent patches). It is those changes in the current LI framework that make things rough.

I do hope SSG can give the devs the time and resources needed to do that serious work soon. Without it, I don't see things getting better as the content keeps moving forward.

[ItaOperor]

For the elaboration, similar to what was said in the video, we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future, and changes we make today that can help prepare us for the future are things that we will be looking at.

Thank you for the reply - but I'm not sure why preventing players from trading scrolls is desirable for the future? It's an MMO and the social aspect of trading is part of that - unless you are moving to an LI system that doesn't use scrolls - in which case just tell us that.

Punishing the whole playerbase for the actions of a few doesn't sit right with me. Just ban the exploiters - if it's true what you say and it's a fraud issue then no innocent player could get accidentally caught up in it.

[Morellian]

I can't think of a time where the particular binding status of an item was or was not an exploit; how the unbound or bound item was then used might well be. Generally, if there is an item that is supposed to be bound and is not, that isn't an exploit, but rather a serious bug fix depending on how the item became bound or unbound in the first place. If we failed to make something bound, we'll fix it, if players found a way to make something unbound, that is more likely an exploit, but again it is the behavior not the item nor its innate binding status that is the issue. For the elaboration, similar to what was said in the video, we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future, and changes we make today that can help prepare us for the future are things that we will be looking at.

This is a slightly convoluted response, so just for some clarity may I ask:

1. Can you confirm that selling an unbound empowerment scroll to another player, mailing an unbound empowerment scroll to an alt or another account, giving away an unbound empowerment scroll to a friend, etc., are not considered exploits by SSG? That the exploit in question here is something other than the exchange of unbound empowerment scrolls between characters/players?

2. If all these bindings were added in order to prevent exploiting, why have several sources of unbound empowerment scolls been left unchanged in the game? What is the difference between, say, MT daily-earned scrolls and Rako farm-earned scrolls that necessitates one source should become bound after all these years, and the other left unbound? Why was this change not made many years ago?

3. Do you understand where players are coming from when they look at these changes that have been made - nerfing empowerment scroll acquisition, making all of the new empowerment scrolls bound (and not having that mentioned in the patch notes), adding new sources of empowerment scrolls in the new, cash-purchase only expansion but not in the older, LP-purchasable expansion, etc. - and come to the obvious conclusion that this seems to be an attempt to push players to upgrade their LIs by turning to the LOTRO store rather than being able to easily earn the required items through gameplay?

[ItaOperor]

This is a slightly convoluted response, so just for some clarity may I ask:

1. Can you confirm that selling an unbound empowerment scroll to another player, mailing an unbound empowerment scroll to an alt or another account, giving away an unbound empowerment scroll to a friend, etc., are not considered exploits by SSG? That the exploit in question here is something other than the exchange of unbound empowerment scrolls between characters/players?

2. If all these bindings were added in order to prevent exploiting, why have several sources of unbound empowerment scolls been left unchanged in the game? What is the difference between, say, MT daily-earned scrolls and Rako farm-earned scrolls that necessitates one source should become bound after all these years, and the other left unbound? Why was this change not made many years ago?

3. Do you understand where players are coming from when they look at these changes that have been made - nerfing empowerment scroll acquisition, making all of the new empowerment scrolls bound (and not having that mentioned in the patch notes), adding new sources of empowerment scrolls in the new, cash-purchase only expansion but not in the older, LP-purchasable expansion, etc. - and come to the obvious conclusion that this seems to be an attempt to push players to upgrade their LIs by turning to the LOTRO store rather than being able to easily earn the required items through gameplay?

I figured it was a convoluted response for a reason so didn't push for further answers on that front. Good questions though

[wispsong]

I can't think of a time where the particular binding status of an item was or was not an exploit; how the unbound or bound item was then used might well be. Generally, if there is an item that is supposed to be bound and is not, that isn't an exploit, but rather a serious bug fix depending on how the item became bound or unbound in the first place. If we failed to make something bound, we'll fix it, if players found a way to make something unbound, that is more likely an exploit, but again it is the behavior not the item nor its innate binding status that is the issue. For the elaboration, similar to what was said in the video, we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future, and changes we make today that can help prepare us for the future are things that we will be looking at.

The problem with bound/unbound is that it is not consistent. Some players get account bound scrolls while others get unbound scrolls depending on what they play or what resource they use to buy them with. This is even worse with crystals. The best source for non fellowship players for those are festivals and these are character bound. Mote/ember purchases and quest rewards are account bound. It is this inconsistency that is aggravating.

[JERH]

This is a slightly convoluted response, so just for some clarity may I ask:

1. Can you confirm that selling an unbound empowerment scroll to another player, mailing an unbound empowerment scroll to an alt or another account, giving away an unbound empowerment scroll to a friend, etc., are not considered exploits by SSG? That the exploit in question here is something other than the exchange of unbound empowerment scrolls between characters/players?

2. If all these bindings were added in order to prevent exploiting, why have several sources of unbound empowerment scolls been left unchanged in the game? What is the difference between, say, MT daily-earned scrolls and Rako farm-earned scrolls that necessitates one source should become bound after all these years, and the other left unbound? Why was this change not made many years ago?

3. Do you understand where players are coming from when they look at these changes that have been made - nerfing empowerment scroll acquisition, making all of the new empowerment scrolls bound (and not having that mentioned in the patch notes), adding new sources of empowerment scrolls in the new, cash-purchase only expansion but not in the older, LP-purchasable expansion, etc. - and come to the obvious conclusion that this seems to be an attempt to push players to upgrade their LIs by turning to the LOTRO store rather than being able to easily earn the required items through gameplay?

Thanks! You asked all my questions but one.

My last major source of new unbound unlimited SoEs (and starlits) is throne. Are there any plans to bind the throne rewards? If so, there is some serious farming time in the future.

[Morellian]

Punishing the whole playerbase for the actions of a few doesn't sit right with me. Just ban the exploiters - if it's true what you say and it's a fraud issue then no innocent player could get accidentally caught up in it.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much SSG's M.O. when it comes to these things. I can't even count all the times players have been collectively punished, not even just for exploits, but for mistakes SSG themselves made with badly thought out changes or bugged updates, that potentially opened up avenues for exploits. Much to my regret, I don't forsee this strategy being changed any time soon.

I also highly anticipate Throne bartered scrolls being hit with the nerf bat (both in terms of quantity earned and lack of binding) in the imminent future. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were left out of this most recent change purely out of oversight. Farm while you can folks

[Braer]

On a good week I could have pushed the 15,000 gold mark on AH SoE profits. You know taking individual characters through annoying instances and putting in 28 hours to get it done. Ofc not something I'd do every week, have to cling to some sanity. The option was there though. People were eager to buy because it must have been what they reasoned was their best option, it's what happens in a free market. Why doesn't SSG try to address it by having someone mange the store to compete for the trade? I even took the hit from AH tariffs but that doesn't satisfy. But the store was arguably four times the price on it's best "deal", that's inept.

No need to feel sorry for me, well resourced still and making AH profits when needed. Would not say no to compensation if the intent wasn't to stifle AH trade ofc.

[wrath247]

This is a slightly convoluted response, so just for some clarity may I ask:

1. Can you confirm that selling an unbound empowerment scroll to another player, mailing an unbound empowerment scroll to an alt or another account, giving away an unbound empowerment scroll to a friend, etc., are not considered exploits by SSG? That the exploit in question here is something other than the exchange of unbound empowerment scrolls between characters/players?

2. If all these bindings were added in order to prevent exploiting, why have several sources of unbound empowerment scolls been left unchanged in the game? What is the difference between, say, MT daily-earned scrolls and Rako farm-earned scrolls that necessitates one source should become bound after all these years, and the other left unbound? Why was this change not made many years ago?

3. Do you understand where players are coming from when they look at these changes that have been made - nerfing empowerment scroll acquisition, making all of the new empowerment scrolls bound (and not having that mentioned in the patch notes), adding new sources of empowerment scrolls in the new, cash-purchase only expansion but not in the older, LP-purchasable expansion, etc. - and come to the obvious conclusion that this seems to be an attempt to push players to upgrade their LIs by turning to the LOTRO store rather than being able to easily earn the required items through gameplay?

Pretty much the nail on the coffin right there. All good questions, which I'm sure everyone is thinking the same of rn.

[WeirdJedi]

Unfortunately, this is pretty much SSG's M.O. when it comes to these things. I can't even count all the times players have been collectively punished, not even just for exploits, but for mistakes SSG themselves made with badly thought out changes or bugged updates, that potentially opened up avenues for exploits. Much to my regret, I don't forsee this strategy being changed any time soon.

Ugh. Reminds me of that one day out of the blue they announced gaining an extra chest in Court of Seregost by defeating the challenge bat in T1 (which happened all the time from their own programming) an exploit after 6 months.

I'm still not sure what happened with the world transfers. There was a post about people going over the ember cap by using the transfer service, then a notice that world transfers would be disabled, soon followed by an announcement that all ember would be converted to motes. That was the last time people could transfer off abandoned servers. It has been over a year now with people coming on the forums every week wondering what happened to their characters. You would think that would be a priority.

[Braer]

People have never been able to transfer off those disabled worlds once they closed and we moved datacentre.

[Wyllshire]

... we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future, and changes we make today that can help prepare us for the future are things that we will be looking at.

If you don't even know what "serious work" you're going to be doing someday "in the future", how can you possibly "prepare" for it with such drastic changes that make so many customers angry? These are simply more vague excuses for increasing the grind. So incredibly frustrating.

[Elmagor]

People don't complain about that if they know more info about "serious work on LI". Like people can accept changes if they understand why you make it.

[gildhur]

...we do want to do some serious work on the Legendary Item system in the future...

See, that's the thing. The LI revamp has been talked about for at least two years now. It's gone from something that sounded like it was being actively worked on in a Producer's Letter to now something that is maybe down toward the end of someone's wishlist in the basement somewhere.

The LI grind is one of the worst aspects of this game and has been for years now. It should've been a top priority a very long time ago, and we should've had a significant revamp by now.

[Seregthol]

See, that's the thing. The LI revamp has been talked about for at least two years now. It's gone from something that sounded like it was being actively worked on in a Producer's Letter to now something that is maybe down toward the end of someone's wishlist in the basement somewhere.

The LI grind is one of the worst aspects of this game and has been for years now. It should've been a top priority a very long time ago, and we should've had a significant revamp by now.

Exactly right! And yet, even now, it's only something they'd like to work on "in the future"....sometime...maybe... possibly...if there's time...perhaps. But it sure is handy (for them) to use this as an excuse to increase the LI grind for all of us now in the present.