U34 - Monster Play Feedback Thread

[Daec]

Invalid invite error message Thank you for trying.

I wish the blue names understood how frustrating this type of situation is for many of us. We would like to know what is going on but the location of the information is not shared by the devs to the general public. It is disappointing to be treated in this manner.

Seems to work just fine for me.

[Neinda]

Seems to work just fine for me.

I will try again. Maybe I mistyped. Thank you.

[UselessSmurf]

I will try again. Maybe I mistyped. Thank you.

There is a time limit on invites. I sent a private message with my discord info, if you want to friend request Ill send you the link from there. If you are in the discord already then disregard.

[voodooalien]

So, after reading the myriad of constructive criticism provided by our wonderful community I decided to throw my 2-cents in. I doubt it'll be read and I wouldn't blame you in the slightest but here it goes!

So, the main problem I'm seeing is the wildly uneven stat distribution across classes and blessings. While I understand the design idea of making trade offs I feel these went too far in the trade off department( Which has already been stated). I'll give my opinion on what I feel should happen and hopefully that can be taken into some consideration.

Stats: While I agree that reaching the highest stat cap for both offense and defense should not be attainable by default I do feel like it is something that should be attainable in one way. Crit for instance isn't able to be capped even with 6 crit+ Krahjarn for BA. If you're going glass cannon then you should be able to cap crit and mastery at the very least. I feel like creeps need to have a more normalized stat range to make things easier in the long run for balance. Obviously in the short term a boost to mitigations would be nice and perhaps corruptions being tuned a little more to allow you to mitigate short comings from blessings a little bit more. Obviously not enough to push you over the edge but enough to allow you to either maximize your strength or counter-balance the glaring weakness of the blessings.

Blessings: I like the idea around these, bonuses to benefit certain play styles and increase your effectiveness at one specific thing. I do not like that nearly our ENTIRE stat pool now comes from these. I feel like these would be better as a complimentary bonus to creep stats rather than our main source of them. Allowing creeps to specialize into various play styles and have special bonuses/buffs that incentivize healing, damage, tank, debuff/DOT.

Allegiances: So, I don't hate the idea but I do have concerns of introducing a potential grind. I'm all for adding new content to creep and more things to do(We are in dire need of) But I don't want them to take away from the core experience which is to PvP and fight freeps. If you can keep them focused on PvP and fighting, with PvE as a supplement to the experience, I think that would likely work best as most people that play creep play it to avoid the grind on freepside and will be rather reluctant to see it creep(hah) into their creep side experience.

What I don't know is possible but would like to see: A pass to normalize creep stats so that things like this don't happen again. I know the code for creeps is uh...Not quite well put together.. But I'm of the mind that all creeps should start with slightly below average stats at base with corruptions allowing you to boost them and blessings allowing you to cap them. For example: Base mitigation would be 30% which would be below the light armor cap corruptions would count for roughly 15% at all 6 traited which would bring you to just below the medium armor rating with tank blessing(Ongburz?) allowing you to push the mitigation to the cap of 60%. Or Critical rating would be at 10% base with corruptions allowing you to increase by 10% bringing you to 20% crit chance, with the crit focused blessings allowing you to bring this ultimately to the cap This would come with the obvious trade off of requiring 6 corruptions to reach this cap+ a blessing while also not tanking every other stat in the process. This also allows creeps to more fine tune their various stats while allowing a more balanced distribution so that they aren't borked in one department. Hope that makes sense.

Obviously that's just a rough draft of the idea and I'm sure you're already working on it but I thought I'd try my hand at giving something slightly more constructive than "I don't like this". That's all.

[TheRealVang]

Going to add my two cents here. For context I am a return creep player from pre-osgilith.

I cameback due to all the talk of updates and honestly did not exspect to come back to find the game so balance before the patch. I have been playing this new patch since it came out and while i was at first very excited to see update to creepside after playing for a while my tone has changed a bit.

First I want to critizice the map CD changes. This change from my perspective has made it very difficult to get proper fights going and to find them both in solo and group play. I do not think a speed boost to 68% will help this.

Second the goal of these blessing was to give us more customization I feel like these have missed the mark. Corruptions already gave me that feeling. These blessings are pre-ordained load out that I cannot really customise. I think the game offers less customization for creeps then previously. I think that our corruptions should be buffed across the board to make our chooses with them more meaningfull. Alternitivly giving us more slots could also work to fill in the gaps.

Right now on my server I cannot solo the same way I used to. I am also finding it more difficult to group since these updates seem to have caused a exodus of creeps.

Before this patch I was seeing names show up again that I had not seen in years I was hopeful for the future of PVMP and my place in it. Now I see less people online and I find it difficult to do content that I used to be able to solo and care rearely find a group to do content with. You guys finally got me and others back to the game. Please dont lose us again.

[ithinkiamserious]

These blessings are pre-ordained load out that I cannot really customise. I think the game offers less customization for creeps then previously.

I really don't understand how you think this makes sense. It's not an opinion, it's an actual fact that you have more customization choices on creepside now than you did before. For example, you can play defiler in three different lines: two types of healing and one dps, with each line modifying the skills. Then you can select your traits and mix and match them as before, only they've added additional set bonuses that did not previously exist. On top of that, you can chose one of many blessings, so you have all kinds of choices on how to mix and match based on what you want to do.

It baffles me how creep mains can complain so much about these pvp improvements. I've had several friends (who would probably be considered freep mains) that have gone over to creep to test out the changes and tell me they had more fun on creepside than freep. I've personally had a lot of fun on creepside since the changes.

Right now on my server I cannot solo the same way I used to.

The same problem exists on freepside. Yes, including champs. Champs are obviously strong in 1v1 situations, but roaming around solo is typically running into the zerg or not finding anything at all.

I am also finding it more difficult to group since these updates seem to have caused a exodus of creeps.

I don't know what server you play on, but on Arkenstone it's the opposite case. There has been an exodus of freeps, so much so that many people who would normally prefer to play their creeps have gone over to freepside to help the action. Whole kins that were regularly coming out before the creep update have disappeared from pvp action.

[ACOstud77]

Having played this game since the beginning, its been interesting coming back and checking up on things periodically. From playing both sides I can see some positives from the recent update but mostly negatives.

Positives:

+I like the return of the original EC and OC.
+March speed increase
+Creep Map CD
+Freep PvP gear/ essences seem to be good (would be nice if the jewelry was allowed in pve though)
+Buffing the NPCs was good, makes zerging inside for a kill more of a challenge.

Negatives:

-Creep mitigations have been reduced too much, I enjoy flayer warg but now can be blown up feeling like I am in shadow stance with mit corruptions traited.
-Also why remove the interruption from eye rake? it was fine before, freeps have so many interrupts on short cd.. bring this back.
-Warg sprint icon is different and it makes me uncomfortable.
-Why nerf flayer damage? Hardly did much before?
-I think defiler healing could be nerfed a tad
-Burg damage buff is too much for the current state of PvP especially with the current mit reduction, creeps dropping in a blink all over the place.
-Freep brand should be equal to the creep one IMO.
-Some more spending options for comms on freepside would be nice.

Basically the moors classes to play right now are Burg, reaver, defiler, champ. lol.

[TheRealVang]

I really don't understand how you think this makes sense. It's not an opinion, it's an actual fact that you have more customization choices on creepside now than you did before. For example, you can play defiler in three different lines: two types of healing and one dps, with each line modifying the skills. Then you can select your traits and mix and match them as before, only they've added additional set bonuses that did not previously exist. On top of that, you can chose one of many blessings, so you have all kinds of choices on how to mix and match based on what you want to do.

Set bonus are something that exsisted before the update so thats not anything new. Defilers no longer have a third stance, they have 2, before this update they had 3. The base stat increase provided by corruptions are so low that they dont really feel all that impactful unless you fish for set bonus which heavily skew to having to have 6 in them. It all feels like they are funneling us into spesific choices which Im not a fan of. These blessing are pre-built load outs. load outs are not customization in my book. That makes all this feel like less customization to me. Even more so since your shoehorned into some of these choice due to a lack of stats being on some of the blessings. Tarkrip for exsample only give 16% crit chance with 6 crit corruptions, its the reaver clan.....

I play on Crickhollow. Zerging and all that has not changed but I can say without a doupt their are far less creeps running around then a few weeks ago and it is due to this update. I want changes, I want updates but I want better thought out updates then this one.

[DickDastardly]

Over a week without response to his own post despite numerous replies . Hope he’s enjoying his Turkey with all that salt .

[b4jet9597]

Over a week without response to his own post despite numerous replies . Hope he’s enjoying his Turkey with all that salt .

I was just laughing about this. Drops disaster update...goes MIA. lol

[Sindhol]

I really don't understand how you think this makes sense. It's not an opinion, it's an actual fact that you have more customization choices on creepside now than you did before.

When looking at customization choices, it's not the number of options that matters, but how much it matters whether you choose option 1 or option 2. Since one decision has become overwhelmingly important (i.e. which of three blessings you pick), and many other decisions have become much less meaningful (all the corruptions), the net result is that there aren't more builds you can realistically run.

I mean, you wouldn't say that freepside has lots of interesting customization options because there are 21 virtues to choose from, would you? Or because there are 98 trait points you can assign in so many different ways? Or even because there are so many kinds of essences you can slot into so many essence slots? It's clear that most of the time the choice of virtues/trait points/essences isn't very interesting at all. Either one choice is clearly the best (e.g. you slot Confidence over Patience, and physical mastery over agility), or it doesn't really matter (e.g. spending trait points on whatever just to hit the next row of traits).

Before blessings, creepside traiting was a little boring. After the update, it's a little more boring. Is the difference huge? Well, perhaps not. Is it a step in the wrong direction? Yes, it is.

[J-Moneyforever]

After spending some time on my reaver I've realized a core problem with creeps is their pure lack of depth due to the trait system and the fact that most classes have at least 5 MUST pick traits. It would be fun to play a DoT based reaver build using blessing of Shelob. But the reality is there's not enough customization baked into the class/there's too many non negotiable trait picks, to allow for specific builds like this. I do like the idea of blessings as a way to add customization but base stats and corruptions are so poor the result is that you just have to choose the blessing that gives you the correct stats rather than the one that gives you options at a different playstyle.
Overall I think blessings are cool and can be expanded upon, an absurd amount of crying in this thread for the fact that it was reiterated time and time again that this revamp of PvP would take time and a number of different versions before you undid the damage the last 6 years created. Real change takes time, too many people throwing tantrums and wanting to just ezmode through bandaid fixes.
TLDR: Blessings are an awesome concept to increase diversity in player build but they represent too big a chunk of stats so you're forced to just play the blessing that has the best stats.
PS: Map changes and EC/OC changes are A+ and have greatly improved action, contrary to the clamorings of the zerg.

[Kate00]

can we PLEASE get an eta on a fix for the freeps exploiting the delving? The last few days all the fights when I've been on have been there and theres no way to kill freeps. Just another way they have to avoid death.

[b4jet9597]

In an effort to continue bringing a measure of parity to movement across the Ettenmoors, we have further adjusted maps to 60 minute cooldowns. Maps to Gramsfoot and Glan Vraig are now on 5 minute cooldowns.

To offset the change to maps, the Monster Player skill March! skill is further adjusted to increases the movement for monster players to 155% while active. Entering combat will negate the effect


What a joke. It's like you people don't even play your own game.

[Namesse]

60 minute maps means there are no maps. You can't be in a group and leave 1 creep behind because the map is on cool down, so everyone has to run. 155% run speed that drops once you're in combat is a joke when the freeps have horses that don't disappear the moment they're in combat. Give us back our original map CDs, they worked fine for 15 years.

Freeps always have a quick trip back to GV if there's a hunter in the group, no cool down.

[Kate00]

In an effort to continue bringing a measure of parity to movement across the Ettenmoors, we have further adjusted maps to 60 minute cooldowns. Maps to Gramsfoot and Glan Vraig are now on 5 minute cooldowns.

To offset the change to maps, the Monster Player skill March! skill is further adjusted to increases the movement for monster players to 155% while active. Entering combat will negate the effect

I have no words ... other than Orion, who do we have to thank for this?

60 minute maps means there are no maps. You can't be in a group and leave 1 creep behind because the map is on cool down, so everyone has to run. 155% run speed that drops once you're in combat is a joke when the freeps have horses that don't disappear the moment they're in combat. Give us back our original map CDs, they worked fine for 15 years.

Freeps always have a quick trip back to GV if there's a hunter in the group, no cool down.

Apparently its ok for freeps and not for creeps. As usual.






@ ORION are you going to address the summon horn issue in combat in the moors or no?

[MuddledMage]

I have no words ... other than Orion, who do we have to thank for this?




Apparently its ok for freeps and not for creeps. As usual.






@ ORION are you going to address the summon horn issue in combat in the moors or no?

I'll order a few tons of peanuts and await an answer as to why an advantage for Freeps would be addressed while an effort to compound an act of stupidity (Map CDs) is being pursued.

[Neinda]

I suspect if PVP has little to no activity, SSG can close the whole thing down and stop supporting it. It allows them to reallocate people and other resources to other areas in game and maybe they save a bit of money in the process. No real maps for creeps means Grams fights from here on out and that is pretty much it. Creeps, I would get all your ranged characters in shape for sitting on the rock outside of Grams and shooting pointy objects at any freeps that happen to stop by for a visit. This map change makes no sense and I don't even recall complaints here on the forums about the creep maps. The ability to map and jump into fights kept the Moors active. Having to walk everywhere or sit at Grams and wait for a fight is boring at best.

Maybe I missed something here but last update the problem was creeps having survivability and lack of damage issues. Somehow the solution was to take away maps? I guess if the creeps don't leave Grams they don't have to worry about survivability or damage? It actually makes sense in a way. No fights=no deaths=no worries about damage output.

[Kate00]

I suspect if PVP has little to no activity, SSG can close the whole thing down and stop supporting it. It allows them to reallocate people and other resources to other areas in game and maybe they save a bit of money in the process. No real maps for creeps means Grams fights from here on out and that is pretty much it. Creeps, I would get all your ranged characters in shape for sitting on the rock outside of Grams and shooting pointy objects at any freeps that happen to stop by for a visit. This map change makes no sense and I don't even recall complaints here on the forums about the creep maps. The ability to map and jump into fights kept the Moors active. Having to walk everywhere or sit at Grams and wait for a fight is boring at best.

I can only assume that the complaints are coming from these "discords" that orion "haunts" because you are right they arent coming from the forums.


Someone fess up to who we have to thank for it.

[Dranak123]

[QUOTE=Kate00;816754]I have no words ... other than Orion, who do we have to thank for this
[FONT=Verdana]
Apparently its ok for freeps and not for creeps. As usual.
With regard to Hunter porting ,and Milestone porting to Bree ( 5min CD possible ) which you forgot to mention, you are entirely correct. This does allow Freeps a reset to GV option which has often been used to evade a creep raid or cover large distances quick. With the reduction in CD of the GV map from 30m to 5m this issue could largely disappear as the outcome is basically identical. What I would be interested to put forward now that some of the disparity in movement ability between the 2 sides has been narrowed massively is the following :- each side gets a map/stable in their 2 unflippable bases DG/OC OR/EC to enable better movement nearer to each respective base , with some sort of time/penalty/cost for doing so i.e. not totally unlimited. After the current changes have had a chance to play out a bit I wonder if this idea would gain any traction with the playerbase and SSG ? As a complete aside to this seeing as creeps have a +10 stealth detection capability , could the LM ability Sign of Power Vigilance be reassessed from its current +3 which is basically useless ?

[Kate00]

[QUOTE=Dranak123;8167572]

I have no words ... other than Orion, who do we have to thank for this
[FONT=Verdana]
Apparently its ok for freeps and not for creeps. As usual.
With regard to Hunter porting ,and Milestone porting to Bree ( 5min CD possible ) which you forgot to mention, you are entirely correct. This does allow Freeps a reset to GV option which has often been used to evade a creep raid or cover large distances quick. With the reduction in CD of the GV map from 30m to 5m this issue could largely disappear as the outcome is basically identical. What I would be interested to put forward now that some of the disparity in movement ability between the 2 sides has been narrowed massively is the following :- each side gets a map/stable in their 2 unflippable bases DG/OC OR/EC to enable better movement nearer to each respective base , with some sort of time/penalty/cost for doing so i.e. not totally unlimited. After the current changes have had a chance to play out a bit I wonder if this idea would gain any traction with the playerbase and SSG ? As a complete aside to this seeing as creeps have a +10 stealth detection capability , could the LM ability Sign of Power Vigilance be reassessed from its current +3 which is basically useless ?

summon horns aren’t being used to reset. They are being used to avoid death. Nice try.

[MuddledMage]

If the idea behind the Map CD nerf was to "balance" an advantage the Creeps have then a rational approach would be to "balance" the travel speed between both individuals and groups. That would mean equitable run speeds between say a Defiler and a Champ. Has anyone who has played in the Moors seen a fat DF named Medsrat try to chase down anything with any success?

Creeps have always wanted the speed of Freeps, mounted or afoot, to be more equalized. What we now get is told "No we want you to either form groups and run everywhere so we can run you down easily to use our hugely imbalanced O & D advantages to wipe you out or you can limit your group movements to once per hour and sit in OOC talking about the wisdom of the people who claim to be improving the game." There's enough of that already, we hardly need more enforced down time so the decision is a simple one....why bother to sign on for more boredom? I quit playing Freepside years ago because the game became dedicated to grinding massive quantities of mats to the point where reading back issues of National Geographic became more entertaining.

[SingularityNow]

If the idea behind the Map CD nerf was to "balance" an advantage the Creeps have then a rational approach would be to "balance" the travel speed between both individuals and groups.

Are you willfully ignoring the fact that you still have maps? Or are you saying that they should completely get rid of maps and bump March up to 168%? What about horse inductions, the fact they go away in water, and can't be used in keeps? Equalize that too?

[Neinda]

Are you willfully ignoring the fact that you still have maps? Or are you saying that they should completely get rid of maps and bump March up to 168%? What about horse inductions, the fact they go away in water, and can't be used in keeps? Equalize that too?

Maps that can only be used once per hour are pretty much useless. Run speed boosts that drop every time a creep agros something are not much of a run speed boost. Freep horses keep on running even when agro happens. Freeps can still run away on a horse while creeps will have to walk after them at a leisurely pace. And creeps will never catch a freep on a horse because the minute they go after the freep they will be in combat and lose the run speed boost.

The advantage of having the creeps walk everywhere will be less lag because there will be fewer fights in the Moors as no one will have time to find each other to start a battle. The Moors will become a Grams/GV camp because that will be the only way to get freeps and creeps in the same location consistently. Ranged classes will become the only useful classes if this situation with the maps continues.

If you actually want the freeps/creeps to move at the same speed, take away all maps, hunter ports, run speed boosts, sprints, horses and whatever else might make someone move at a faster pace. Just think how interesting the Moors would be then.

Maps have been used to find fights and get activity going in the Moors in locations other than Grams and GV. At this point SSG should just shrink the map and have the two keeps sitting across a river from each other and leave the PVP at that. They can toss rocks and pointy sticks at each others' keeps. Might as well cut down on the travel time between keep camps.

But on the positive side here, nothing really matters because the change has been made and the nerfing of the maps is set in stone. And here I was considering heading back to the Moors based on how things were going before the last update. Very glad I did not waste my time.

[SingularityNow]

Maps that can only be used once per hour are pretty much useless.

But they're not. They're useful once an hour. Why should we have the same speed as horses plus maps?

The Moors will become a Grams/GV camp because that will be the only way to get freeps and creeps in the same location consistently. Ranged classes will become the only useful classes if this situation with the maps continues.

And this is different than every other day somehow?