Names in Middle-Earth, Quick Guide

[MysterX]

They look more like snow leopards...

[Mormegul]

Kilpa-kita is in fact an error on my part...I misread our linguist's notes. That was supposed to be kalpa-kita. Please bug that!!!

Sword-maw eh ?

[Womdon]

Cool, thanks for setting me straight on those names.

By the way, Lauri is a male NPC. Made me do a double-take

[Thanatos]

I checked in an on-line Old English dictionary, and I think a better translation might be cealdneswine or cealdnesfreond, as cealdwine might mean a friend who is cold. Cealdnes is listed along with ceald for 'coldness.' As for friend, I think Berephon may have made a typographic error, as I would be surprised if 'fiend' means friend. The dictionary lists wine or freond as the translations for 'friend.' -wine, to the best of my knowledge, is only used as a suffix, usually in names (e.g., aelfwine 'elf-friend' Modern English Alfwin).

It's possible that Berephon is using a source that is based on a different dialect of Old English from the one I used, hence the differences. This is the source I used: http://home.comcast.net/~modean52/oeme_dictionaries.htm

Eowyn was translated by Tolkien as "Horse Joy" in a couple sources I saw at least, but I can see where Joy, Friend, Love (one who loves), and even Love (connoting a maiden) could all be related to the -vin/-win/-wine/-wyn/-wynn/-wen suffix (the last variant being separate from the Sindarin -wen, but in ME terms it might be a sort of borrow-word from the elves.) Given how popular that name element is, variants are a good thing.
A few more links for good Rohirric names:
Anglo-Saxon/Old English
http://www.20000-names.com/female_anglo_saxon_names.htm
http://www.20000-names.com/male_anglo_saxon_names.htm
Teutonic (Closely related enough to give some ideas on variants):
http://www.20000-names.com/female_teutonic_names.htm
http://www.20000-names.com/male_teutonic_names.htm

Here are the Finnish links, in case anyone wanted to make a Man descended from Lossoth stock (whose grandparents moved to Dale or Bree, perhaps)...
http://www.20000-names.com/female_finnish_names.htm
http://www.20000-names.com/male_finnish_names.htm

*******

Also a question from a friend (a new player I invited) about her name - Saeldariel.
The closest I can guess is "Wise (and) Tough Woman". Does that work in Sindarin, to have two adjectives in a compound like that?

Thanks!

[Beren-two-fisted]

Great post. I learned a lot about naming. I have a question on the use of Adûnaic. I had a Human Captain from Gondor who I wanted to give an Adûnaic name to. However as I researched Gondor naming it became apparent that Sindar names were popular and Adûnaic was not in use by the good guys anymore. I assume that in game Adûnaic names are primarily used by Black Numenorians and Creeps.

So my questions for the naming community are: Would an Adûnaic name for a captain of Gondor break lore? Is an Adûnaic name just old fashioned, but still usable for Gondorians? Or are only Sindarian names proper for men of Gondor in the third age?

Depending on the answer.. I have some questions then on Sindarian naming, but will save those for a followup post.

[Berephon]

Great post. I learned a lot about naming. I have a question on the use of Adûnaic. I had a Human Captain from Gondor who I wanted to give an Adûnaic name to. However as I researched Gondor naming it became apparent that Sindar names were popular and Adûnaic was not in use by the good guys anymore. I assume that in game Adûnaic names are primarily used by Black Numenorians and Creeps.

So my questions for the naming community are: Would an Adûnaic name for a captain of Gondor break lore? Is an Adûnaic name just old fashioned, but still usable for Gondorians? Or are only Sindarian names proper for men of Gondor in the third age?

Depending on the answer.. I have some questions then on Sindarian naming, but will save those for a followup post.

As far as names in Gondor, it's a mixture of Sindarin and Quenya. However, I do not believe Adûnaic would be lore-breaking.

[Farnik]

Great post...
This inspired a new name I could use for an alt: Calenaug or Galenaug (both mean "green dwarf", which fits me because I love dwarves and the color green ). Plus they sound flipping sweet!

[Thanatos]

Great post...
This inspired a new name I could use for an alt: Calenaug or Galenaug (both mean "green dwarf", which fits me because I love dwarves and the color green ). Plus they sound flipping sweet!

The interesting part, to me at least, would be the story behind how he got the name. Why does this dwarf have an elven name? Did he earn it by helping them somehow, and what makes him choose to go by it rather than his dwarven name?

Really the same questions would apply to anyone that's not an elf or man of Gondor.

[Sojourner]

The interesting part, to me at least, would be the story behind how he got the name. Why does this dwarf have an elven name? Did he earn it by helping them somehow, and what makes him choose to go by it rather than his dwarven name?

Well the second question is sort of answered by the fact that Dwarves have "traveling" or "public" names that they use in the presence of non-Dwarves and often even Dwarves not of their family. These names are taken from non-dwarven languages, almost always some sort of Manish tounge. Thus Thorin, Dwalin, and even Gimli aren't their true Dwarvish names, just what they go by in "mixed" company.

There still is a big question of way a dwarf would choose to go by an Elvish name. However, if handled correctly it could be a great backstory and RPing tool.

[Thanatos]

Well the second question is sort of answered by the fact that Dwarves have "traveling" or "public" names that they use in the presence of non-Dwarves and often even Dwarves not of their family. These names are taken from non-dwarven languages, almost always some sort of Manish tounge. Thus Thorin, Dwalin, and even Gimli aren't their true Dwarvish names, just what they go by in "mixed" company.

There still is a big question of way a dwarf would choose to go by an Elvish name. However, if handled correctly it could be a great backstory and RPing tool.

Yes, of course, but as we have so little of the Dwarvish tongue to work with, and all the dwarves have public names based on old Norse*, I would think it's obvious that the question didn't apply to the truename. The public names have a pattern, and a Sindaring name breaks that pattern in a very unexpected direction. If there's a story to it, that's great and I'm interested to hear it, but if it's borne of an idea that all Tolkien's races draw their names from one language, then that's a misunderstanding.

*More specifically, the Völuspá:
http://cybersamurai.net/Mythology/no...da/Voluspo.htm
The dwarf names start around verse 10.

[SiSL]

I don't think we have any guide directions to go for Dwarven language except a few words like Baruk Khazad or Khazad Heimenu. Since even proffessor did not mentioned it in the books, may be he was planning to develop it later if he had live more...

[Berephon]

I don't think we have any guide directions to go for Dwarven language except a few words like Baruk Khazad or Khazad Heimenu. Since even proffessor did not mentioned it in the books, may be he was planning to develop it later if he had live more...

They actually never went by their Khuzdûl names, but rather took names after the fashion of the North-men (Norse). Their Khuzdûl names were secret.

[edwinunger]

Was just having some fun with my Sindarin Dictionary at work, found a great name for a Spider.

Arthlanath - it's a mashup of three words we know so well: world wide web (world is ardhon, I anglicized it and shortened it, as with the other two words).

[cdwangs1]

After some looking around, have made a (hopefully) intelligent guess for what I hope to use as my last name on my characters:

"Silverwind" (always liked the sound of it) translating to "Celebrinsûl"

Is that accurate? There were several variations of "wind", though plain old "sûl" seemed to fit the bill best.

Also several versions of silver, though I chose "Celebrin" which seems to mean "of or like silver" Because silver in this case is an adjective, I've put it before wind.

The part that has me worried is what I keep reading about mutations on letters. Is there anything about my word choices that would necessitate a change in spelling?

[Berephon]

After some looking around, have made a (hopefully) intelligent guess for what I hope to use as my last name on my characters:

"Silverwind" (always liked the sound of it) translating to "Celebrinsûl"

Is that accurate? There were several variations of "wind", though plain old "sûl" seemed to fit the bill best.

Also several versions of silver, though I chose "Celebrin" which seems to mean "of or like silver" Because silver in this case is an adjective, I've put it before wind.

The part that has me worried is what I keep reading about mutations on letters. Is there anything about my word choices that would necessitate a change in spelling?

I don't have my source here at the moment (at home) to verify Celebrin, but assuming that is indeed correct, it would be Celebrinhúl. The s mutates to h and the û shortens just a little to ú.

Silverwind would more directly translate to Celebhúl. Celeb literally means silver (hence Celeborn "Silver Tree" and Celebdil "Silvertine")

[Berephon]

They actually never went by their Khuzdûl names, but rather took names after the fashion of the North-men (Norse). Their Khuzdûl names were secret.

Also, I am going to quote myself with a correction. Pierson and I both thought that Tolkien's "misspellings" of Norse dwarf-names was intentional. We were right, but for the wrong reasons. We thought he was going more on pronunciation and "look," when in fact they are not Old Norse spellings, but Old Gutnish spellings (which apparently the Professor was also well familiar with.

Old Gutnish was an Eastern Norse dialect developed on Gotland, a speck of a Scandinavian island, and so obscure that neither Pierson nor I had ever heard of it (and, oddly, with all of the biographical works on Tolkien we've read, never realized he knew it.)

A hearty thanks to one to one of our forum members (who will remain unnamed, unless he choses to reveal himself--it was in a PM, so he may not wish to be known) for calling us out!

NOTE: We did do some research, and sure enough the vowel and consonant mutations we see in Tolkien's dwarf-names do indeed match Old Gutnish.

[skorpion352]

so then what would Celondim translate to? would i be correct in assuming that i means something along the lines of Silver Dock, Silver Boat or Silver Water?


also, keep up the awesome lore work

[Berephon]

so then what would Celondim translate to? would i be correct in assuming that i means something along the lines of Silver Dock, Silver Boat or Silver Water?

I don't remember off-hand...I'll check Monday. Celon, I do not believe, has to do with silver.

[ManticoreFalco]

According to DragonFlame, Celon means river. Dim though, you've got me. DragonFlame doesn't seem to have anything, and neither does the Sindarin name site that I use.

[skorpion352]

I don't remember off-hand...I'll check Monday. Celon, I do not believe, has to do with silver.

okay thanks. its not important, just thought id try and find out while visiting the thread, lol

could i get a translation of Silver Bow, im thinking of using it for my hunter to replace my current one (unless you can translate Agilithaw into elvish )

[AmAvocet]

According to the dictionary a high-school friend and I whomped up back in '78, dim is Sindarin for:

1: gloomy, sad
2: stair

Don't ask me for citations to support this; our dictionary was plain vanilla.

Presumably, then, Celondim is either "sad river" or "river-stair." Take your pick.

[skorpion352]

According to the dictionary a high-school friend and I whomped up back in '78, dim is Sindarin for:

1: gloomy, sad
2: stair

Don't ask me for citations to support this; our dictionary was plain vanilla.

Presumably, then, Celondim is either "sad river" or "river-stair." Take your pick.

that makes perfect sence

[ManticoreFalco]

According to the dictionary a high-school friend and I whomped up back in '78, dim is Sindarin for:

1: gloomy, sad
2: stair

Don't ask me for citations to support this; our dictionary was plain vanilla.

Presumably, then, Celondim is either "sad river" or "river-stair." Take your pick.

Considering how much stairs seem to play a role in Celondim, I prefer the latter.

[Hoppa_Joel]

Silver lake, I'd guess

[Berephon]

According to the dictionary a high-school friend and I whomped up back in '78, dim is Sindarin for:

1: gloomy, sad
2: stair

Don't ask me for citations to support this; our dictionary was plain vanilla.

Presumably, then, Celondim is either "sad river" or "river-stair." Take your pick.

I believe it comes out to something like River-port or some such, but I don't know for certain off-hand.