Upcoming Changes to PvMP!

[Sezneg]

Because Hakai is a idiot. nuf said. He's more concerned with the stupid legendary system then my whole class. so I've been begging the active and concerned devs to take a look. i wish for the best when it comes to you creeps, however my whole class is now busted in more ways then one. since it's 60 i deserve some dedication to my class. him being split between GRD's and the legendary system is to much for him to handle. so yes i do ask your devs to take a look, because even if they didn't fix PVE for us then maybe your devs would fix PVMP for us.

Guards are not broken in pvp. Sorry the threat vs damage is broken in pve.

Fel and Jal are not the people who can fix that for you.

[ixbittle]

we have no idea what wound pots will actually cure and what skills it won't. At least hold your bitching till then

-Morrdan/Weaver/Pre

It will be too late to prevent the devs from burying what is left of PVP if we wait.

I admit that the incurable debuffs is not really a good route, but I hope this change will last at least a book or two. Freeps will finally get a taste of what creeps have endured for almost two years... *evil laugh*

Thanks, devs... You have the full support from bitter creeps on this one!

[XavierVE1]

Look at the Freepies like ol' Ixbittle whine. Gee, I can't cure armor rend, which is AoE, but they should be able to cure sundering blow with a spammable skill like Leechcraft? Eat glass.

Can't wait for book 7, we finally will have skills that don't have an auto-counter, how nice.

[Bennyboy]

Personally I think the Updates are great, as I play a reaver in the moors. I do however think that one of them is far too OP. Sundering blow is already spammable, and having 2 reavers around can basically guarantee a huge armor rend all the time. Having that in addition to it not being curable is way overpowered. I'll love it on my creep, but I don't think I'll take my freep out to the moors much.

OP!!!! Are you kiding me, the Sundering Blow as it stands now is -1,500 or so armour value, the average guard has some where around 6,000-7000 armour Im guessing, so if the devs bump the debuff up to -2000 or maybe -2500, then how is that OPd at all? The skill doesnt stack, and has a slight, but not drastict effect to midigations, unless you're a RK with 3,000 armour, then you may really notice the difference.

[ixbittle]

Look at the Freepies like ol' Ixbittle whine. Gee, I can't cure armor rend, which is AoE, but they should be able to cure sundering blow with a spammable skill like Leechcraft? Eat glass.

Can't wait for book 7, we finally will have skills that don't have an auto-counter, how nice.

Pfft, you will be on your DPS LM. You can not take advantage of the EXISTING wound cures in combat. How would you notice the difference?

[XavierVE1]

Pfft, you will be on your DPS LM. You can not take advantage of the EXISTING wound cures in combat. How would you notice the difference?

What a goofball. Leechcraft is always traited, silly boy.

You're the one whining like a baby bear because you won't have your widdle leechcraft win button in the moors. It's too bad you don't play your garbage toons on Elendilmir, we'd blow you up so hard and constantly that you'd never stop crying on the boards. It would be an absolutely dominating show of...

Wait, nevermind, you'd like that. *shudder*

[ixbittle]

What a goofball. Leechcraft is always traited, silly boy.

You're the one whining like a baby bear because you won't have your widdle leechcraft win button in the moors. It's too bad you don't play your garbage toons on Elendilmir, we'd blow you up so hard and constantly that you'd never stop crying on the boards. It would be an absolutely dominating show of...

Wait, nevermind, you'd like that. *shudder*

Ah yes, the fabled land of E where packs of roving minstrels cause creeps to quack in fear while the brave posters tell of the wild days on the forums! If you are traiting for the best DPS, you will not have room for wound clears without a hybrid build which says tons about what passes for legit on E. Oh wait, "Elendilmir - Best server for creeps"

Anyways, the point is that bitter/hatefull creeps are loving this idea to the point where devs needs to take a step back, swallow some pride, and look at the changes before they bork the map THIS book in a different direction. Fix it, do not kill what is left of the pvp crowd...

[Sezneg]

Elendilmir - Best server for creeps"

http://www.surugi.com/lotrostats/?se...&active=active

That would be correct.

Well, since that's cleared up you should move right along. Shouldn't you be out searching for a dominating woman?

[madesometoast]

Ah yes, the fabled land of E where packs of roving minstrels cause creeps to quack in fear while the brave posters tell of the wild days on the forums! If you are traiting for the best DPS, you will not have room for wound clears without a hybrid build which says tons about what passes for legit on E. Oh wait, "Elendilmir - Best server for creeps"

Anyways, the point is that bitter/hatefull creeps are loving this idea to the point where devs needs to take a step back, swallow some pride, and look at the changes before they bork the map THIS book in a different direction. Fix it, do not kill what is left of the pvp crowd...

ixie poo's, for the first time you have to experience wounds without the ability to "pot out of it", and you cant take it on the chin, it goes to show what an absolute easy mode, pvp player you are. you keep posting on these forums yet you say you have left pvp, its not our fault that 99% of all other lore masters can play there class and not complain in the forums like you. so either 99% of lm's are **** players and cant play there classes, or you are the only one that is correct in your hazy insinuations and biased opinions. call me a man of averages, but ill go with the 99% of freep lm's.

you are sir, the most disliked forum poster in this game, the most biased player that graces these forums with totally out of touch biased drivel. if i was you i would be embarrassed, reading the forums on your home server shows the absolute disdain that your freep playes have for you and and lop sided and out of tune opinions.

that been said, we are in a democracy, you are entitled to your opinion, as are we, unfortunately for you, your opinion seems to conflict with 99.9% of the forums.
so being a democracy, and only needing 50% of the vote, it must be awfully lonely in the .% corner that you live in.

you should come creepside ,and perma roll a troll, cause lets face it, its the only class that you can play.

when you actually rank a minnie and have a idea of what you are talking about, unless of course you have a lvl 60 minstrel on elendimir, which i highly doubt, then you may form an opinion of our server, unitl then please continue to spew your laughable attempts at self attention that you seem to crave. our community on e, is one of the best server wide, as many server transfers have siad, as of 5 minutes forn now we are running the fabled "aussie drunken raid" on creepisde, which is, the only server to get a raid of players on at this time of nite aussie time, which is what 5am 6am est in yankee land. i heard there is a new trait that the devs brought out especially for you ixie, its called "get a clue", i suggest that now you are pve only, you go and grind it.

good day to you sir.

[elderlygamer]

Can people please keep the flames and personal attacks out of this thread? It would be shame for Turbine to stop posting info about pending updates due to the insults people are throwing around.

[Ames]

I as a creep disagree with giving one side the ability to pot out of wounds and not having the other side be able to do it. While I understand that creeps have been unable to do it since the game started (unless there was a pot I missed) I don't think its right to strip it from the freeps and give it to creeps. Creeps asked for balance not one sided changes. This is a one sided change and I disagree with it. I think both creeps and freeps should have the ability to pot out of slows, wounds, etc. If one side has it, give it to the other side, don't take the skill away while at the same time giving it to the other.

That being said, I wonder if uncurable means uncurable by a class skill and pots or uncurable by just a skill. If its just the skill and the pots will still do something, I like it. However, rather than make the skills not work in the moors, I would prefer to see creep classes get the ability to cure wounds so that both sides have the ability to do it. If freeps lose the ability to clear wounds and DoT's when they have had it all along, its not right. Give it to the creeps but don't take it away from the freeps. Thats not balancing the mechanic.

[elderlygamer]

Creeps asked for balance not one sided changes. This is a one sided change and I disagree with it. I think both creeps and freeps should have the ability to pot out of slows, wounds, etc. If one side has it, give it to the other side, don't take the skill away while at the same time giving it to the other.

If Turbine wanted to make both sides the same, creeps would be able to one-shot freeps, creeps raids would be dominated by BAs since BAs would be doing ridiculous damage (as do hunters), wargs would be able to have higher evasion and stealth more often, defilers would get nice emergency skills like feigning death and a self-imposed bubble, warleaders would be able to save their entire 6-person group from wiping, creeps would be able to get out of combat sooner, creeps would have much higher icpr and icmr, and so on.

If you want both sides to be the same I'm sure you'd want that for every aspect, not just wound curing, right? Right?

[Ames]

If Turbine wanted to make both sides the same, creeps would be able to one-shot freeps, creeps raids would be dominated by BAs since BAs would be doing ridiculous damage (as do hunters), wargs would be able to have higher evasion and stealth more often, defilers would get nice emergency skills like feigning death and a self-imposed bubble, warleaders would be able to save their entire 6-person group from wiping, creeps would be able to get out of combat sooner, creeps would have much higher icpr and icmr, and so on.

If you want both sides to be the same I'm sure you'd want that for every aspect, not just wound curing, right? Right?

I'm not sure where you got that I wanted each side to be the exact same in terms of skills but perhaps you misunderstood the little bit where I said if one side has it, give it to the other side. I was posting about wounds and slows as well as the ability to cure them, mainly in regards to pots.

I believe both sides should have the availability to use pots that will help them in combat whether it be wound, poison, fear, root, stun or whatever else you can get hit with. I want it to be fun out there and if Turbine is trying to work towards balance, I don't think giving an ability to one side while taking it away from the other is doing that.

I know that creeps need help, I play one. Theres a laundry list of things I would like to see changed for creeps alot of which you touched on in your post. However, I did NOT say that I wanted both sides to be exactly the same. That being said, I don't think giving something to one side while taking it away from the other is working towards balancing the mechanic of wounds and slows.

[Thurindras]

uncurable debuffs and dots!




at least i wont be spending an ungodly amount of money on wound pots now

[ixbittle]

ixie poo's, for the first time you have to experience wounds without the ability to "pot out of it", and you cant take it on the chin, it goes to show what an absolute easy mode, pvp player you are. you keep posting on these forums yet you say you have left pvp, its not our fault that 99% of all other lore masters can play there class and not complain in the forums like you. so either 99% of lm's are **** players and cant play there classes, or you are the only one that is correct in your hazy insinuations and biased opinions. call me a man of averages, but ill go with the 99% of freep lm's.

you are sir, the most disliked forum poster in this game, the most biased player that graces these forums with totally out of touch biased drivel. if i was you i would be embarrassed, reading the forums on your home server shows the absolute disdain that your freep playes have for you and and lop sided and out of tune opinions.

that been said, we are in a democracy, you are entitled to your opinion, as are we, unfortunately for you, your opinion seems to conflict with 99.9% of the forums.
so being a democracy, and only needing 50% of the vote, it must be awfully lonely in the .% corner that you live in.

you should come creepside ,and perma roll a troll, cause lets face it, its the only class that you can play.

when you actually rank a minnie and have a idea of what you are talking about, unless of course you have a lvl 60 minstrel on elendimir, which i highly doubt, then you may form an opinion of our server, unitl then please continue to spew your laughable attempts at self attention that you seem to crave. our community on e, is one of the best server wide, as many server transfers have siad, as of 5 minutes forn now we are running the fabled "aussie drunken raid" on creepisde, which is, the only server to get a raid of players on at this time of nite aussie time, which is what 5am 6am est in yankee land. i heard there is a new trait that the devs brought out especially for you ixie, its called "get a clue", i suggest that now you are pve only, you go and grind it.

good day to you sir.

I love the personal attack. It shows what kind of people are supporting the devs in this move. But hey, I am not the one giving out bad advice on armor, fear DR, and talking trash about people on vent. So, I have no problem taking sides in this battle. I am not playing the Popular Game, either - we are not in high school.

Can people please keep the flames and personal attacks out of this thread? It would be shame for Turbine to stop posting info about pending updates due to the insults people are throwing around.

It shows exactly what kind of people are supporting this change.

I as a creep disagree with giving one side the ability to pot out of wounds and not having the other side be able to do it. While I understand that creeps have been unable to do it since the game started (unless there was a pot I missed) I don't think its right to strip it from the freeps and give it to creeps. Creeps asked for balance not one sided changes. This is a one sided change and I disagree with it. I think both creeps and freeps should have the ability to pot out of slows, wounds, etc. If one side has it, give it to the other side, don't take the skill away while at the same time giving it to the other.

That being said, I wonder if uncurable means uncurable by a class skill and pots or uncurable by just a skill. If its just the skill and the pots will still do something, I like it. However, rather than make the skills not work in the moors, I would prefer to see creep classes get the ability to cure wounds so that both sides have the ability to do it. If freeps lose the ability to clear wounds and DoT's when they have had it all along, its not right. Give it to the creeps but don't take it away from the freeps. Thats not balancing the mechanic.

How dare you not support this? :P Yes, I agree with you.

[Ionie]

OP!!!! Are you kiding me, the Sundering Blow as it stands now is -1,500 or so armour value, the average guard has some where around 6,000-7000 armour Im guessing, so if the devs bump the debuff up to -2000 or maybe -2500, then how is that OPd at all? The skill doesnt stack, and has a slight, but not drastict effect to midigations, unless you're a RK with 3,000 armour, then you may really notice the difference.

Yes, the change was very much needed, since (intentionally or not) the reaver's "Sundering Blow" armour debuff was severely nerfed with MoM:

Before MoM, the skill reduced a freep's armour value by 1124. On an average guardian, which had around 2-2.5k armour, the skill reduced the guardian's armour by about 50% -- resulting in a decreased mitigation to common damage (which is what BAs, spiders, some wargs, and some reavers do) of about 50%.

In MOM, the skill reduces a freep's armour value by 1274. However, with the changes to the armour system, the average guardian has around a 6.5-7.5k armour value. So now, when we use Sundering Blow, the guardian's armour is reduced by about 18% -- resulting in a decreased mitigation to common damage of only about 18%.

Despite the fact that the new Sundering Blow now reduces mitigation of fire and shadow damage as well as common, that's a significant nerf, considering how many creeps are common-damage dealers and how a freep's common mitigation is by far the highest of all its mitigations. Meanwhile, the Moors bears "Breached Armour" was increased from 1101 pre-MoM to 1967 post-MoM.

I am hopeful the Book 7 increase will be significant enough to fix this.

[Ionie]

Gee, I can't cure armor rend, which is AoE, but they should be able to cure sundering blow with a spammable skill like Leechcraft? Eat glass.

Don't forget Ancient Craft, which is an uncurable AoE armour debuff on a 1 minute cooldown that can debuff 5 targets, not to mention that the uncurable armour reduction effect from Improved Rend (which is also an AoE skill that can affect 5 targets and has massive bleed legacies associated with it) stacks with Ancient Craft. Meanwhile, the reaver's Sunder Armour, which is single-target only, does not stack, and causes no bleed damage, was never properly scaled in MoM. Bottom line, Ix: the Sunder Armour fixes were sorely needed.

[Ionie]

I as a creep disagree with giving one side the ability to pot out of wounds and not having the other side be able to do it. While I understand that creeps have been unable to do it since the game started (unless there was a pot I missed) I don't think its right to strip it from the freeps and give it to creeps.

Please direct me to the posts over the last two years where you begged Turbine, in the interests of fairness and balance, to allow creeps to pot out of wound effects like freeps have always been able to do. When you do, I'm sure freeps and creeps alike can rest assured that your concerns are genuine.

[madesometoast]

Please direct me to the posts over the last two years where you begged Turbine, in the interests of fairness and balance, to allow creeps to pot out of wound effects like freeps have always been able to do. When you do, I'm sure freeps and creeps alike can rest assured that your concerns are genuine.

ixbittle please read this quote and direct me to said posts.

[Jalessa]

Your mighty blow topples Nopain

Please remember that Defilers got some love with patches after Moria launch (as I started working on them early):

Curse of Deadly Sorrows had it's armour debuff value increased.
Efflorescense stacks with other heal over time effects from the Defiler.
Fertile Slime, Fungal Spores, and Fungal Bloom were increased.

(And by the way, the Plague Gourd effect is listed incorrectly - the effect referred to is the debuff.)

I did not, realistically, have time to do a second pass on the class when everyone needed the same amount of attention.

[Jalessa]

About Wrath:

This skill is tailored to assist more in heavy PvE (keep takes, artifact captures) more than in PvP kills. I guess it's more of a YMMV (your mileage may vary) skill. Ah well.


About curability:

In the past, there has been a wide discrepancy between what Freeps can cure and what Creeps can cure.


Pre-moria, this was the situation:

- All creep skills that had an effect which could land on a target (i.e. damage over time, debuff) had a monster resistance type set and also had a curability flag set so it could be cured by a free player potion or skill.

- All freep skills that had an effect which could land on a target (i.e. damage over time, debuff) had a DIFFERENT resistance type set and SOMETIMES had a curability flag on it set, so it could be cured by a potion or skill (that didn't exist yet).

Freep skill resistance type flavors: tactical, cry, song, physical.
Monster/creep resistance type flavors: fear, disease, poison, wound

So, there was an imbalance. Freeps could clear anything creeps could throw at the Freeps. Creeps couldn't clear anything Freeps threw at them.


Post Book 7:

With the new potions introduced, some Freep skills will become curable. Some Creep skills will remain curable with the existing Freep potions. I've also taken a look at how some damage rules (like stacking) on Freep side work and applied them Creep side.

[Wosret]

What about the NPC discrepancies within the Moors?

Freep NPCS are CC mongers... whereas Creep NPCs are not.

Talk about "smacking your head on a granite wall" as a Creep player... we're CC'd by Freeps AND their NPCs!

Jesus!

[ixbittle]

ixbittle please read this quote and direct me to said posts.

Sure! In fact, you can quote me now. You feel free to dig up the previous posts from the other books where creeps had the option of wound clearing, though.

Outside of the blatant insults which shows what kind of creeps support this change, the new wound pots should cure wounds like the existing wound cures for freeps fix wounds on freep-side. In short, the devs should not do something silly just because bittter and hate-filled players on creep-side want to punish freeps.

[Thurindras]

What about the NPC discrepancies within the Moors?

Freep NPCS are CC mongers... whereas Creep NPCs are not.

Talk about "smacking your head on a granite wall" as a Creep player... we're CC'd by Freeps AND their NPCs!

Jesus!

Whereas creeps have a lot more DoT effects, similar to their NPC counterparts...

[Chav]

Your mighty blow topples Nopain

I did not, realistically, have time to do a second pass on the class when everyone needed the same amount of attention.

Trouble in paradise