Confused by new Map items

[waldorfTM]

I am a subscriber now. I have access to everything I need to play the game adequately as I did back at P2P. On the plus side, I can now accrue my TPs to purchase things that I like. Is anyone here complaining about Shared Storage, for instance? I am not. It was a welcome addition, and worth the TPs i had in my wallet.

Here is the problem. Why is there even a need for shared storage anyways? With WOW, I could easily mail a horde of items between characters. Also, my bank alt could create a guild and have a ton of storage, seriously. Now, Turbine could fix the mail system and kinships in LOTRO to make this just as easy. They could have easily made it so that VIP could quickly attach 12 stacks of items to a single mail for example, or not require kinships having so many members.

However, Turbine's response is to make something that costs extra.

This is the prime difference in business models with "free(lol)-to-play". There is little incentive to fix annoyances. The incentive is to dip into your wallet. Even if you are VIP, they will try and get as much of your TP spent as possible to get back into your wallet. After all, suckers are actually making excuses for them.

[Alexmook]

With the new instance join feature does anyone use their map home anymore anyway?

As far as I am concerned, they could increase the price by 10x on this as it doesnt interest me at all. There are so many ways to get around now that if you cant find something to do for 60 minutes till your map comes back up or you dont know another way to get where it is you want to go, then I think you need to see a bit more of the game.

Premium item at a Premium price......Perfect for the store.

[Texicon]

I also would like to thank the OP for letting me know about this item, had no idea.

[TRONEON]

Since I only play one toon as don't have the time to play mutli toon's and I saved all my turbine points for decent things instead of one off consumables and mounts you can already get in game anyway....I bought the hurried traveller and 2 more milestone skills. Now as a Hunter I need this alot less than other characters with all the travel skills we have but still it comes in super handy and saves hours of travelling time in game which means more time to play the game and easier to get things done quicker when you have limited time in RL.

I work alot of long 12-16hr shifts at work and sometimes can't take my laptop with me so these sort of items are perfect for someone like me who has limited time to play but doesn't want to spend hours of my playing riding his horse, even if I do enjoy it way more than I should lol, hardly getting anything done in game.

I probably agree should not have to pay for it but then again what should we pay for? Its easy to farm turbine points, easy to make money in game, they have to make there money somewhere.

[probitas]

Tell you the truth, nothing is stopping you from doing the same thing the F2Pers are and creating TP-mules. That said, if this becomes a widespread issue Turbine will more than likely curb that.

Being a lifetimer who has not actually purchased a single item from the shop, I still don't see "gouging", "bleeding me dry", "ripping me off", or "being greedy". What I see is Turbine trying to make a game as accessible as they can for free without creating a point where LOTRO is nothing more than a loss leader for the company. I don't buy anything because I don't need anything from the store, nor do I have a desire to get anything from the store.

If everyone who complains about Turbine being greedy were to actually stop paying, get together and make their own F2P MMO, without being 'greedy' of course, then you might find your Avalon. Otherwise, Turbine's system is leaps and bounds better than pretty much every other F2P MMO.

Of course they will curb TP acquisition in the game to prevent this. Why do you think so many items cost so many TP to begin with? To eat up TP faster than can be earned.

As for gouging, I think perhaps the term is harsh, a better word would be baiting. People pay the monthly expecting to not have to use the store. When they reach top level, they will find that the store offers a short cut for everything they need, as long as they spend extra money on top. And there is no way to get such items by getting a world drop or paying game coin somewhere. In some cases, the store is a way to circumvent much of the game mechanics entirely, like virtues and stats, revive, dread, etc. For the Destiny System, everything that the store copies has had the game cost increased drastically, effectively punishing them for having the audacity to pay a fee to play the game and expect to avoid the store yet again.

It certainly isn't making the game more accessible when you must pay more than a sub fee to increase your vault thanks to new content increasing the need to store barter items or armor for different purposes. Turbine knows this, why do you think you can't increase the vault in game beyond the old limits? Wait until RoI is out, even more barter stuff and armor sets. But you won't be able to hold it all with a standard account, you will have to purchase more. If you consider a standard fee account as a Honda Accord, then what Turbine/WB expects you to do is purchase an after market kit to turn your standard car into a Fast and Furious rice burner.

Effectively, it truly does make it cheaper in the long run to simply cut the sub fee, and grind TP. It takes longer, but it's the only way to shoot Turbine/WB the bird and vote any displeasure in the only coin they respect.

[Daragh]

I subscribe and it feels like I'm getting charged twice. I already pay good money to play, I paid for the expansions. In doing so I expect content. What I don't want and what we seem to now get is a sneaky addition. No one in their right mind would not use a Scroll of Removal and that addition, forcing (yes, forcing!) subbers to pay more is an obvious example of the direction they are taking the game. Since the alternative is to lose all your relics and start over at every reforge, they have us cornered.

I have never played a game that worked this way. Warhammer, Wow, PoTBS, EVE etc, you pay your money you get the product. (never thought I'd have a good thing to say about Wow again, but there you go!) I don't know how much tp premium and f2p buy a month, but I would guess it's more than the cost of a subber's subscription. If so, then subbers are a source of lost revenue and in time, the subscription model may go out the window.

If there is more content added in ROI that is tp only, after I purchase the expansion, I'd would move on to another game in a heartbeat. I paid already, I paid for the product, I don't want to pay more for what should be a part of the package. If ROI is only available with tp, as a way of getting my credit card attached to the store, then it's back to EVE for me.

[probitas]

At least in Eve you can earn ISK and pay for your own sub, something that is very rare anywhere else. You would think it would cut into their revenues, but they are banging along just fine.

[Munuc]

Otherwise, Turbine's system is leaps and bounds better than pretty much every other F2P MMO.

But that's the problem. For the people complaining here, LOTRO is NOT a F2P game. They are paying a monthly subscription, but being treated like freeloaders who need to be convinced to hand over more cash. That's what's frustrating.

I also wish people would stop using the reasoning that 'Turbine needs to make money, you know!'. Turbine IS making money. When F2P launched, their revenue tripled. And yet they're still adding new things to the store that are either straight advantages (pots) or absurdly 'convenient' items (all the LI stuff that avoids dozens of hours of grind), and constantly urging us to hand over more money -- even if we're paying them a subscription already.

As someone said earlier, it's an issue of respect. Subscribers aren't being treated with any.

[JahoicAzrael]

There's a difference (and a vast one at that) between want and need.

I have never, ever at any point seen something in the store that I actually *need*.

There are often things that I want, and I buy those when they come along.

Are they necessary? No. Are they a convenience? Yes. Do they make my play sessions easier? Yes.

Someone said it best:

"The only thing the store always has in stock in nerd rage."

[waldorfTM]

But that's the problem. For the people complaining here, LOTRO is NOT a F2P game. They are paying a monthly subscription, but being treated like freeloaders who need to be convinced to hand over more cash. That's what's frustrating.

I also wish people would stop using the reasoning that 'Turbine needs to make money, you know!'. Turbine IS making money. When F2P launched, their revenue tripled. And yet they're still adding new things to the store that are either straight advantages (pots) or absurdly 'convenient' items (all the LI stuff that avoids dozens of hours of grind), and constantly urging us to hand over more money -- even if we're paying them a subscription already.

As someone said earlier, it's an issue of respect. Subscribers aren't being treated with any.

Excellent point. I am VIP as well, and I am well aware that Turbine are trying to squeeze even more money out of me. They are shameless about it too. It is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth.

[Quavosh]

I don't think the 30 minute cooldown purchase is price gouging. LOTRO is designed much differently than WoW when it comes to traveling, and from experience with WoW and other MMOs I am use to the 1 hour cooldowns on recalls. I've been playing LOTRO for about 5 months now and never been in a situation which the 1 hour cooldown interfered with my playing experience. So purchasing a this quicker cooldown I probably won't be buying with my TP at full price as it isn't really a necessity.

[Chiot]

There's a difference (and a vast one at that) between want and need.

I have never, ever at any point seen something in the store that I actually *need*.

There are often things that I want, and I buy those when they come along.

Are they necessary? No. Are they a convenience? Yes. Do they make my play sessions easier? Yes.

Someone said it best:

"The only thing the store always has in stock in nerd rage."

Other games build these conveniences into the game for their subscribers, to keep them happy. Happy subscribers continue subscribing.

LotRO on the other hand is putting conveniences into the store and then telling subscribers to fork out more cash to get those conveniences. Subscribers should have access to them already, it is the non-subscribers who should be the only ones paying for those conveniences.

The point of F2P initially was to have enough VIP-only-conveniences in the store to turn those F2P people into subscribers. Now LotRO has decided that that isn't enough, and that they should try their hardest to get more money from the subscribers as well.

There is barely any point to being a subscriber now. What benefit did a VIP see with the new update that a F2P didn't see?

[Arbalister]

The difference is, other MMOGs make these changes and don't expect their customer base to pay for them. Every customer gets the changes, fixes, additions, etc.

That's quite true.

Can you play that other game totally for free?

[waldorfTM]

There's a difference (and a vast one at that) between want and need.

I have never, ever at any point seen something in the store that I actually *need*.

There are often things that I want, and I buy those when they come along.

Are they necessary? No. Are they a convenience? Yes. Do they make my play sessions easier? Yes.

Someone said it best:

"The only thing the store always has in stock in nerd rage."

No, no, no...

Since you are going to talk about "need".

I have already pointed out that Turbine did not need to have the fixes for these inconveniences cost extra either. Blizzard will fix their game to remove the inconveniences and not charge extra for it. Turbine on the other hand will apparently deliberately leave them in, and even create inconveniences in the first place, then charge extra to "fix" them.

In WOW, I can easily move hordes if items between my characters. There is no need for shared storage. However, if I want even more storage, I can create a bank alt with a guild and have access to more storage than I could ever need. Blizzard does not charge me a penny for it. It is a part of the game that anyone can do.

Turbine has deliberately left the in game mail as an annoying farce in comparison, with the option to purchase 20 shared slots of storage. 20 freaking slots lol.

One mail in WOW can have 12 attachments and be mailed off in seconds. And, there are mail boxes everywhere. In WOW if you are in town you log out instantly, not the annoying 25 seconds in LOTRO. With a bank alt in WOW, you can share anything you want between characters far faster than even the best option in LOTRO. In fact, in WOW I could log out of my main, log into my bank alt, mail items to my main, log out of my bank alt and back into my main before the first character could even finish logging out in LOTRO. Not to mention, my main does not even have to go to the vault, as there are mailboxes everywhere. On top of these facts, the best and slower option in LOTRO costs extra.(????)

This is only one example of a deliberate annoyance in LOTRO.

Unfortunately, it appears that LOTRO is filled with fans that will make excuses for Turbine. Now, why on earth would Turbine fix anything when there are so many players apparently willing to be fleeced and tell Turbine how "fair" they are while fleecing them.

[BillyDale]

Let me preface this by saying that I have not really gotten into the full LI system yet as I've not entered much past the gates of Moria but it seems to me that there's a lot of inconsistency with the store complaints. People say "I'm okay as long as the store items are only convenience items" then those same people say, "these store items may the game way too convenient so we are FORCED to buy them." Admittedly, I'm not incredibly familiar with the store items because I never look in the store. I made a decision long ago that I would just play with what I have in the game and I'm enjoying it immensely. I feel like the playing of the game is what's enjoyable. I wouldn't get enjoyment out of using a ton of TP to make it incredibly easy to get the best of everything. "The joy is in the journey"

[cipher_nemo]

Thanks for the cr@ptastic rename of thread, mods. Boo!

[JahoicAzrael]

Other games build these conveniences into the game for their subscribers, to keep them happy. Happy subscribers continue subscribing.

LotRO on the other hand is putting conveniences into the store and then telling subscribers to fork out more cash to get those conveniences. Subscribers should have access to them already, it is the non-subscribers who should be the only ones paying for those conveniences.

The point of F2P initially was to have enough VIP-only-conveniences in the store to turn those F2P people into subscribers. Now LotRO has decided that that isn't enough, and that they should try their hardest to get more money from the subscribers as well.

There is barely any point to being a subscriber now. What benefit did a VIP see with the new update that a F2P didn't see?

Then un-subscribe. Your point seems to be that you are not getting any benefit from the monthly fee that you pay.

So don't pay it.

I feel that I get value for my monthly fee, so I pay it. You don't, so stop. Pretty simple.

And you're completely wrong about the point of F2P. It was to increase revenues. Plain and simple. Without an increase in revenues, all of this value that I feel I'm getting and you feel you aren't, wouldn't happen.

I'm happy that a game I enjoy is continuing.

You don't seem happy at all. So go F2P. Then it's not costing you anything at all to play.

Except the quest packs you'll need to buy with TP. Oh, and the skirmishes. Oh and the whose-its and what-sits. And I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff as well.

I look at my monthly subscription fee as supplying all that, plus the added bonus of TP every month.

But hyperbole and incendiary language do make for a much flashier argument, though certainly not a compelling one.

[Tatuaje]

That's quite true.

Can you play that other game totally for free?

Maybe? But I do not care, It's LOTRO we are talking about. I am VIP therefore do not care if this game can be played free or not. It has no bearing on me. I do not like the "feeling" of being bleed dry for every little tidbit of cash than can squeeze. Regardless as to whether people are/are not being bleed for more cash, TPs, etc - if they percieve it - then it is real. That is all that really matters in the long run.

I left Guild Wars a few years back due to real life issues. I loved it, you bought the game - you played the game. No $1 here, $3 there. No online fees to pay. I bouth 2 expansion packs as well. I am very interested in seeing what GW2 will be bringing to the table this year. I am more than happy to give you my $50 - $60 for a game and then I am done. No bogus store fees or monthly rates.

BTW, swift travel, the 500 TPs a month, etc.... not free to VIPs - those are bought and paid for monthly. F2P got me here, VIP got me happy, but the new changes, store inflation, etc will be what sends me packing. Even if I do not need the items, the game is taking on a tone I do not like. Soon it will cost TPs to level up at the trainer with additional TPs to get new skills.

[RFlagg]

The point of F2P initially was to have enough VIP-only-conveniences in the store to turn those F2P people into subscribers.

What ever gave you that idea? That was never the point of F2P. The point of F2P is exactly what they are doing, exactly what you are complaining about. That's only what you WISH the point of F2P was.

[carlosjuero]

At one point Turbine brought to light that their mail system is only one attachment because of tech limitations - the actual system they use is sort of an "addon" to the main code base and they are not the IP owners of the code [if I remember right].

They did not intentionally leave it this way to get more money.

If you are annoyed at Shared Storage then don't buy it. Purchase an in game house and use the housing chest as your shared storage instead - no TP required.

WoW this and WoW that. Newsflash: This isn't WoW. Period. End of the line. Just because WoW does something some way does not mean that every game on the bloody planet must do it that way. [Oh, and how quick people forget that WoW did not start out with multiple item mailing - it was only added after a certain Lua plugin became so popular it was almost "mandatory"].

No, no, no...

Since you are going to talk about "need".

I have already pointed out that Turbine did not need to have the fixes for these inconveniences cost extra either. Blizzard will fix their game to remove the inconveniences and not charge extra for it. Turbine on the other hand will apparently deliberately leave them in, and even create inconveniences in the first place, then charge extra to "fix" them.

In WOW, I can easily move hordes if items between my characters. There is no need for shared storage. However, if I want even more storage, I can create a bank alt with a guild and have access to more storage than I could ever need. Blizzard does not charge me a penny for it. It is a part of the game that anyone can do.

Turbine has deliberately left the in game mail as an annoying farce in comparison, with the option to purchase 20 shared slots of storage. 20 freaking slots lol.

One mail in WOW can have 12 attachments and be mailed off in seconds. And, there are mail boxes everywhere. In WOW if you are in town you log out instantly, not the annoying 25 seconds in LOTRO. With a bank alt in WOW, you can share anything you want between characters far faster than even the best option in LOTRO. In fact, in WOW I could log out of my main, log into my bank alt, mail items to my main, log out of my bank alt and back into my main before the first character could even finish logging out in LOTRO. Not to mention, my main does not even have to go to the vault, as there are mailboxes everywhere. On top of these facts, the best and slower option in LOTRO costs extra.(????)

This is only one example of a deliberate annoyance in LOTRO.

Unfortunately, it appears that LOTRO is filled with fans that will make excuses for Turbine. Now, why on earth would Turbine fix anything when there are so many players apparently willing to be fleeced and tell Turbine how "fair" they are while fleecing them.

[UrsaMinor]

Sooo, basically all of you that disagree with the op that Turbine's stance of making it less desirable to pay a monthly fee think that's not a problem for the future of the game?

I keep reading on the forums how all these f2p players are "farming" the system(rerolling characters just long enough to get all the easy deeds done) to get enough TP so they don't ever pay real money, but those who have and so far are continuing to faithfully pay the monthly fee are "greedy" for wanting some of the new content without having to pay extra for it... oh wait, we already are!!

Try taking off your rose coloured glasses, even the lifetimers are finally seeing the forest.

I'm a lifer. I have absolutley zero problem with the way things are going. There is nothing, I repeat nothing, in the Store that is required to play the game and have fun. Conveniences, yes, but nothing that stops me from playing the game. What more should I want?

Yes, they want to charge everyone TP to unlock new game conveniences in the lastest update. They're new, something that wasn't there before. It's not new content, it's new go-fasters. Why should anyone expect to get them for free? The sense of entitlement of some players (not just in this game, either) is staggering.

[Chiot]

That's quite true.

Can you play that other game totally for free?

I am subscribing to LotRO, just as I subscribed to WoW. I expect a similar level of treatment.

[carlosjuero]

I am subscribing to LotRO, just as I subscribed to WoW. I expect a similar level of treatment.

That is not what he asked.

[DuncanMcDermott]

Which is precisely why I had chosen to stay a VIP. I've played more than my share of games over the years starting with UO way back when and if they hadn't messed with their engine i'd prob still be playing(it's called loyalty, something i was under the impression Turbine valued, ie.lifetimers) as well as a number of f2p mmo's which have all lasted no more than a month or so.

My point is that i've always gone back to WoW and LOTRO(which i typically don't even bother cancelling during my absence) which up until now had been not only the best games on the market, but also at $10-15/mo a decent price, even given the expansion outlays. Now LOTRO is messing with that which leaves me to either put up and shut up or as everyone keeps telling me, leave and go back to the one game that's left... not a very good impression for a game that needs paying customers.

Reading this I think I understand that you want as much content as offered by WOW for the same price as WOW only to play LOTRO? If that is correct I understand what you want but I say this. Look At WOW's number of subscribers compared to LOTRO's. That difference buys a lot more content. I love this game it has some faults like any other game but it has kept my interest for several years and that is something. UO was the only other game to do so and that was for 7 years. My opinion is this you have to take the good with the bad and play the game that makes you the most happy. Complaining about it here most likely will not change anything.
I buy items from the store now and again. When I do I consider it a contribution to a game that I want to see continue. I am a lifer but still like to treat myself now and then with some extras. The Devs need a constant flow of money to continue the game. I want to see that happen.
I was in the beta of Rift and came to the conclusion that it was not for me. I hope you find what you are looking for. Good Luck

[waldorfTM]

At one point Turbine brought to light that their mail system is only one attachment because of tech limitations - the actual system they use is sort of an "addon" to the main code base and they are not the IP owners of the code [if I remember right].

They did not intentionally leave it this way to get more money.

If you are annoyed at Shared Storage then don't buy it. Purchase an in game house and use the housing chest as your shared storage instead - no TP required.

WoW this and WoW that. Newsflash: This isn't WoW. Period. End of the line. Just because WoW does something some way does not mean that every game on the bloody planet must do it that way. [Oh, and how quick people forget that WoW did not start out with multiple item mailing - it was only added after a certain Lua plugin became so popular it was almost "mandatory"].

What did I say about players making excuses for them?

Are you trying to tell me that Turbine can not improve the in game mail? Seriously...

I am not buying the excuse that they can not improve it. However, with players like you why would they? You are perfectly willing to accept a load of nonsense.

I am well aware that this is not WOW. However, the comparison remains valid. They are both mmo's. And, like I said, Blizzard will improve their game and not charge their players more for it. You in fact just proved my point. Blizzard improved the mail system, several times, and did not charge a penny for it.

It is very clear that many improvements in LOTRO will cost extra. And why would Turbine not charge for it. There are players perfectly willing to make excuses and fall for this nonsense.

Also, did a mod just change the title of this thread?