Confused by new Map items

[Chiot]

I have already pointed out that Turbine did not need to have the fixes for these inconveniences cost extra either. Blizzard will fix their game to remove the inconveniences and not charge extra for it. Turbine on the other hand will apparently deliberately leave them in, and even create inconveniences in the first place, then charge extra to "fix" them.

In WOW, I can easily move hordes if items between my characters. There is no need for shared storage. However, if I want even more storage, I can create a bank alt with a guild and have access to more storage than I could ever need. Blizzard does not charge me a penny for it. It is a part of the game that anyone can do.

Turbine has deliberately left the in game mail as an annoying farce in comparison, with the option to purchase 20 shared slots of storage. 20 freaking slots lol.

One mail in WOW can have 12 attachments and be mailed off in seconds. And, there are mail boxes everywhere. In WOW if you are in town you log out instantly, not the annoying 25 seconds in LOTRO. With a bank alt in WOW, you can share anything you want between characters far faster than even the best option in LOTRO. In fact, in WOW I could log out of my main, log into my bank alt, mail items to my main, log out of my bank alt and back into my main before the first character could even finish logging out in LOTRO. Not to mention, my main does not even have to go to the vault, as there are mailboxes everywhere. On top of these facts, the best and slower option in LOTRO costs extra.(????)

This is only one example of a deliberate annoyance in LOTRO.

Unfortunately, it appears that LOTRO is filled with fans that will make excuses for Turbine. Now, why on earth would Turbine fix anything when there are so many players apparently willing to be fleeced and tell Turbine how "fair" they are while fleecing them.

Exactly. LotRO now has inconvenience as a design strategy, with specific remedies for those inconveniences available for cash in the store.

I fully expect to see a mailbox enhancement. Create a new mail with one slot for one item (as the current system stands), plus 5 extra slots all with the little TP logo on them. Want to be able to send an additional item permanently? 495 TP. Plus another 495 for each additional slot, until you can send a total of 6 items whenever you want. This may or may not be on a per account basis.

[JahoicAzrael]

No, no, no...

Since you are going to talk about "need".

I have already pointed out that Turbine did not need to have the fixes for these inconveniences cost extra either. Blizzard will fix their game to remove the inconveniences and not charge extra for it. Turbine on the other hand will apparently deliberately leave them in, and even create inconveniences in the first place, then charge extra to "fix" them.

In WOW, I can easily move hordes if items between my characters. There is no need for shared storage. However, if I want even more storage, I can create a bank alt with a guild and have access to more storage than I could ever need. Blizzard does not charge me a penny for it. It is a part of the game that anyone can do.

Turbine has deliberately left the in game mail as an annoying farce in comparison, with the option to purchase 20 shared slots of storage. 20 freaking slots lol.

...rest snipped...

So play WoW? If you are so terribly unhappy with this game, I don't know why you would play it, unless you are a masochist. And if you are a masochist, could you please be a quiet one?

I played WoW for one week. Didn't care for it at all. Especially didn't care for the average person I ran into, didn't find it interesting at all. Did I spew bilious whining hyperbole all over the WoW forums? No.

To accuse a company of deliberately leaving 'inconveniences' in a game in order to draw more money from their customer demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding as to how business works, and a paranoia that typically generates conspiracy theories about... well pretty much anything and everything.

Am I happy with everything that Turbine does? No. I feel the burglar portion of the update was sadly underwhelming. Would I like it to have been done differently? Absolutely.

Am I happy on the whole with the game? Well... I'm still here. That's how I vote. With my wallet.

I'd suggest you do the same.

[FyreBrand]

The difference is, other MMOGs make these changes and don't expect their customer base to pay for them. Every customer gets the changes, fixes, additions, etc.

LotRO is now making changes the customer base has requested and then asking them to pay for the changes. This is what is going to drive people to other MMOGs.

<snip the rest for brevity>

But Turbine is treating the VIP no differently than the F2P now.

This is exactly how I feel. I want a P2P game experience with a subscription and Turbine is moving away from that.

Short, to the point, and absolutely correct. Best thing is, even if you cancel your account through spite or otherwise, you can still play LOTRO. Unlike that other MMO the OP pointed out with their 30-min Hearthstone.

Here's the rub though, and I think Curt Schilling (founder of 38 Studios) put it best. To paraphrase, he said: There are only 24 hours in a day and there are only so many gaming hours you can play. Life is too short to waste time on games that suck.

In short the "hybrid" model is a failure. What we have is just a F2P game with high end account level that has a TP stipend and comes with a few unlocks as you level.

So for those who can't afford a subscription this is probably a great shift in the direction of the game. For those of us who can afford a sub, and want a subscription to deliver a P2P experience, this change sucks.

[Dotlbeme]

I pride myself in NOT buying things I can do without. For this mapping problem I have 3 solutions...

1. Don't buy it, make do with the several options still available at no TP cost.
2. Roll a Hunter.
3. Roll a Warden.

For all the people whining about an unfair advantage, it is perfectly fair. Turbine will charge appropriately for convenience items. Items you can get FOR FREE by playing the game and earning points OR by paying cash. How important is it to you? Will you pay the game price by grinding TP or will you pay real money?

Anything in the game can be gotten by playing.

Is it unfair that I have 40 hours a week to play and earn points any you only have 10 hours a week to play? NO.
Is it unfair that I have $30 to spend every three months to pay for VIP and you don't? NO.
Is it unfair that I bought a $200 lifetime at launch and you are newly F2P? NO.
Will I spend TP on frivolous items I might want? NO.
Is it unfair that others can (and do)? NO.

Are you people going to quit whining about the store? NO, unfortunately....

[Izradi]

So, you still have the map home option, which works pretty much the same way it has since launch.

Now, you have the option to purchase additional maps, so you can map to multiple places, in addition to the one you get for free.

This is convenience, not necessity. Which makes it a perfect item to put in the store. Just like shared storage. Saves time, much more convenient, but by no means necessary to play the game. I'm much more likely to purchase stuff like this in the store than stuff I can get already in the game.

You can still play the game just fine without the new maps, shared storage, accelerated crafting experience, etc. All that stuff just makes it more convenient.

If you don't want to pay for the convenience, don't.

If you don't want to pay for the conveniences that VIP offers, don't.

If other players don't have a problem paying for these convenience items, Turbine isn't "bleeding them dry," they're offering them a service that they're willing to pay extra for. If no one buys these items, they'll either remain unbought, or the price will go down.

Meanwhile, you can still play the game minus the added conveniences with no problem whatsoever.

Or you can post a tantrum on the forums because you want what you want the way you want it.

Or you can just go do something else.

/shrug

[carlosjuero]

I am not making excuses for Turbine. I am merely pointing out what has been revealed in the past. Do you honestly think that people haven't wanted multiple item mails since launch? Do you think that, if Turbine had the power, they wouldn't have done the change pre-F2P due to popular demand? [they have done many other changes due to popular demand]

Please get off your generalization kick. The items added to the store make things go quicker, they are not needed for every day play. Turbine continues to make base game improvements that everyone has access to and has asked for [Radiance removal for instance], and yet they get lambasted by people like you who will never be happy.

For the record: I am not a fan of all of Turbines updates. I really do not like the new character panel, but I realize I will just have to buck up and get used to it. I do not like the multiple debuff removal pots in the store, but I don't have to use them to be able to play so I can ignore them. I detest the # of store buttons that have been creeping up [or, in the case of the new character panel, the huge size increase for the one that was there] but I will just have to ignore them.

For all of the "people perfectly willing to make excuses for Turbine" there are just as many who are perfectly willing to jump down Turbine's throat for any reason whatsoever. Each side believes their opinions are the only ones that matter, each side can be just as vocal or aggravating.

Turbine has improved the LI system... for FREE without asking an extra dime [unless you want to go on a rant about how the items that speed up things or allow for users to bypass the new LI relic system by removing relics at will]. Turbine has improved quests, landscape and entire Zones for FREE without asking an extra dime. As soon as they offer anything in the store though it is "HOW DARE YOU TURBINE?!". Please.

What did I say about players making excuses for them?

Are you trying to tell me that Turbine can not improve the in game mail? Seriously...

I am not buying the excuse that they can not improve it. However, with players like you why would they? You are perfectly willing to accept a load of nonsense.

I am well aware that this is not WOW. However, the comparison remains valid. They are both mmo's. And, like I said, Blizzard will improve their game and not charge their players more for it. You in fact just proved my point. Blizzard improved the mail system, several times, and did not charge a penny for it.

It is very clear that many improvements in LOTRO will cost extra. And why would Turbine not charge for it. There are players perfectly willing to make excuses and fall for this nonsense.

Also, did a mod just change the title of this thread?

[waldorfTM]

So play WoW? If you are so terribly unhappy with this game, I don't know why you would play it, unless you are a masochist. And if you are a masochist, could you please be a quiet one?

I played WoW for one week. Didn't care for it at all. Especially didn't care for the average person I ran into, didn't find it interesting at all. Did I spew bilious whining hyperbole all over the WoW forums? No.

To accuse a company of deliberately leaving 'inconveniences' in a game in order to draw more money from their customer demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding as to how business works, and a paranoia that typically generates conspiracy theories about... well pretty much anything and everything.

Am I happy with everything that Turbine does? No. I feel the burglar portion of the update was sadly underwhelming. Would I like it to have been done differently? Absolutely.

Am I happy on the whole with the game? Well... I'm still here. That's how I vote. With my wallet.

I'd suggest you do the same.

First off, do not tell me what to do.

Secondly, I own a business. I am the boss, and I make the business decisions. So, I do in fact have have knowledge and experience in this regard, unlike your assertion of my lack of knowledge, lol.

The reason I am here is to speak my mind. I, as a paying customer, do not like the way that VIP's are being treated. Turbine is very clearly trying to get even more of my money. I can see this plain as day. Remember, I run a business and it is my job to separate customers from their money.

I have a right to voice my views, and to point out that Turbine is, imo, fleecing their customers. Clearly I will not be sticking around. I will not tolerate being treated like this by someone I am paying money to. Especially when there are so many more options that offer a better service for far cheaper(not just WOW btw). These better options are also not constantly trying to get into my wallet even after I have paid my subscription fee.

Also, seeing the apparently blatant censorship by mods in this thread is appalling.

My hopes is that a thread like this can open the eyes of newer players that Turbine is clearly trying to take players for as much money as possible. Blizzard, and many other mmo companies, are only trying to get a regular monthly fee and offer the best experience possible for the same fee. The same can not be said for Turbine.

[UrsaMinor]

First off, do not tell me what to do.

Secondly, I own a business. I am the boss, and I make the business decisions. So, I do in fact have have knowledge and experience in this regard, unlike your assertion of my lack of knowledge, lol.

The reason I am here is to speak my mind. I, as a paying customer, do not like the way that VIP's are being treated. Turbine is very clearly trying to get even more of my money. I can see this plain as day. Remember, I run a business and it is my job to separate customers from their money.

I have a right to voice my views, and to point out that Turbine is, imo, fleecing their customers. Clearly I will not be sticking around. I will not tolerate being treated like this by someone I am paying money to. Especially when there are so many more options that offer a better service for far cheaper(not just WOW btw). These better options are also not constantly trying to get into my wallet even after I have paid my subscription fee.

Also, seeing the apparently blatant censorship by mods in this thread is appalling.

My hopes is that a thread like this can open the eyes of newer players that Turbine is clearly trying to take players for as much money as possible. Blizzard, and many other mmo companies, are only trying to get a regular monthly fee and offer the best experience possible for the same fee. The same can not be said for Turbine.

No, your post is petulant rant by someone mad because they aren't getting their way. You want to try and scare newer players off from playing something they might like, and have no problems with, because YOU don't like it. Your avowed aim, according to this post, is to incite a boycott.

It's your money. If you feel you are not getting your money's worth, please take it elsewhere (the same thing the customers at your business can do). You'll be happier not having to put up with the game you don't like, and we'll be happier not having to put up with you. It doesn't matter if you think we've drunk the kool-aid or whatever; the end result is we like it here, and you don't. Don't try to save others from the game 'for their own good'; give them the courtesy of letting them make up their own minds.

[crazyfoot]

[QUOTE=carlosjuero;5290988]At one point Turbine brought to light that their mail system is only one attachment because of tech limitations - the actual system they use is sort of an "addon" to the main code base and they are not the IP owners of the code [if I remember right].

They did not intentionally leave it this way to get more money.

QUOTE]

I have to disagree with your assessment that they did not leave it this way to get more money. Of course they are using it to leverage more money out of our pockets. Regardless of whether the code of the mail system is theirs, they could set the cost to mail items to theoretically be zero. Having its cost as zero would not make it a gold sink, and then there would be no incentive to buy those shared character vault slots at the cash shop.

Same way as people who defend the Cash shop purchase of the cool down from 60 minutes to 30 minutes on the Map Home is bogus. It took way more programming time to design the store items and make a second set of purchasable stuff than to go into the code and change the value from 60 minutes (or 3600 if they use seconds) on the cool down to 30 minutes. Don’t be fooled it’s about making money off things which detract from customer enjoyment and satisfaction. Maybe you think you should pay extra for car seats that do not have nails sticking out of them. Costs more for the manufacture to put in all those nails, but you should pay abu tt load to not have that inconvenience. After all they need to make a living too.

I have no issue with Turbine providing horses, cosmetics, racial/hunter/warden/reputation ports and store potions (unless instances/raids are unable to be accomplished without them) etc. however it seems to me they are heading down the slippery slope toward maximizing gouging.

[Sapience]

This thread has quickly ventured down the path of wild speculation and inaccurate assumptions. I think we're done here.