Forced emotes - worse than ever

[maxjenius]

Yes, I agree that Turbine should have an opt out. I also think some people are perhaps a tad intolerant.

A tad? I think you are a tad understating the situation as it exists in the minds of some players.

[Glenwin]

btw: SWTOR made it so, if you were infected by the /FE without the antidote opt-out you automatically infected everyone around you about every hour or so. They created an unending need for antidote-opt outs. Must have been very lucrative. They still lost almost as many players as play lotro.

Well... they got what they deserve then. This is really hilarious. Unbelievable...
I am glad I heard of this here because I now really know why I will never play that game.

It is really funny how people seem to start from scratch when dealing with virtual worlds. They seem to forget everything about nice behaviour or what is good and what is bad they have learned when they grew up. They experiment and try to find out what works and what doesn't. And if they find things that don't work they are too proud to admit they made a mistake and don't take it back. And then they send out their poor messengers to look you in your eyes and tell you their version of what is right and what is wrong with their theories which are not at all about right or wrong but all about what brings the most income and finding out where they lose the smallest ammount of players. When I got told what is viewed as right or wrong I was made aware of the simple fact that either I accept it or go away. This is just not how to teach someone about right or wrong. When companies make the rules these rules are -sadly- too often not about what is good for their customers. These rules are too often only about what is good for the company. The problem with that is that when you successfully communicated that by not answering certain questions, never reacted to certains PM's you start to lose the trust of your customers. That is the worst thing that can happen to a company and it's happening here again. Every day this FE issue isn't dealt with it is happening a little more. And trust is earned back very hard when once lost.

Why is all this so hard to learn? Is it really necessary to always learn it the hard way? This stupid opt-out may be a lot of work but it's so unbelievable well spent developer time that it is stupid not to implememt it. Imagine all these FE discussions gone with a blink of an eye....

Sapience and Celestrata, please bring our message to the devs once more. I know it will annoy them. But you know that this question will not go away. What is your job by the definition of your company? To shepherd us? Or to solve problems?

[MrWarg]

Wait, I just realized something else earlier.

Nobody can ever mentor instruments to anyone else because it forces a /bow.

Just thought I'd bring that up, too.

Carry on with your arguing. Or start thread #9257289761. Either or. I'm sure I can find another facepalm bunny.

Haha I actually chuckled at that.

[Gripn]

I'm really fed up of how Turbine ignores griefing and cheating. Sort it out, Turbine!

[Iorothiel]

I'm really fed up of how Turbine ignores griefing and cheating. Sort it out, Turbine!

We're all tired of griefing. But, this isn't about griefing. =/

It's just about something--one of many, many somethings--that a griefer can use.

Which is sad. We could have started a revolution to change the policy on how griefing is monitored and handled. ALL TYPES OF GRIEFING. Not just this. It'll never happen, though, because the community just cares about this.

[Dworin]

We're all tired of griefing. But, this isn't about griefing. =/

It's just about something--one of many, many somethings--that a griefer can use.

Which is sad. We could have started a revolution to change the policy on how griefing is monitored and handled. ALL TYPES OF GRIEFING. Not just this. It'll never happen, though, because the community just cares about this.

You're right, it is sad. People don't want to see their character performing actions they did not choose for their character to do, and have so little protection from such actions. Sit on your horse? Fine, try that indoors. Or as soon as you dismount to dance, you're vulnerable. Or, don't bother playing, and go do something else.

You'd like to end griefing? So would I. And forced emotes is the place to start.

[Northwoods]

I've been against the forced emotes from the start. I know some women who hate them. Why? Imagine someone walking up to you and forcing you to bow before them, "all in good fun". Even if it's done with the most sexist or abusive of intentions, you can't prove that; it's just a player using an approved in-game mechanic.

It's tool to feed a person's ego at another person's expense. How is that ever a good idea?

Emotes should always be at the control of the emoting player.

Thus far, the argument has fallen on deaf ears, however, and short of massive player outcry, it won't change if the past several years is any indication.

[SalionOfBrothers]

I thought these things were on shared cooldowns, but just a bit ago I got hit with something call Spider Leg and then right after Candle and Mirror, from the same annoying player. How was this possible. Should I bug it?

[Whart]

We're all tired of griefing. But, this isn't about griefing. =/

It's just about something--one of many, many somethings--that a griefer can use.

Which is sad. We could have started a revolution to change the policy on how griefing is monitored and handled. ALL TYPES OF GRIEFING. Not just this. It'll never happen, though, because the community just cares about this.

The community cares about griefing in all forms. The reason FEs are the focus of so many debates is that they give griefers their best and easiest tool to disrupt activities/events, as well as the fact that the deed increases non-griefers' desire to use them on any available target. So people aren't only having to deal with them in true griefing situations, but much more frequently in all areas of the game.

The other reason we talk about this so much is that there is an easily identifiable solution that many folks can agree on, whether they like FEs or not. The discussion of griefing in all its other forms does not have as easy an answer as an on/off switch, and therefore gets into even more contentious issues such as the proper role of GMs, etc. That doesn't mean we don't care or that we won't ever try to get Turbine's attention regarding the larger issue.

[manstan]

A tad? I think you are a tad understating the situation as it exists in the minds of some players.

Take in to account this is from some one that thinks any reaction is an over reaction and we are all supposed to be emotionless zombies while playing.

The real kicker is most of the time the person hitting you with the emote is not a low level greifer, but a high level character.

My point being before now pretty much any greifing I ran in to in a game was some low level newbie that ended up getting banned. But here we have high levels that have practically made a career of griefing. And why? Because greifers don't get banned here as long as they use emotes to grief.

Drop your hackles I'm not calling everyone that uses emotes as griefers.

[maxjenius]

I thought these things were on shared cooldowns, but just a bit ago I got hit with something call Spider Leg and then right after Candle and Mirror, from the same annoying player. How was this possible. Should I bug it?

Different ones share different cool-downs. Plus if someone has finished the deed and got the skill, that may have no cool-down for all I know. I was trading them with a player the other day and I was able to do two or three in a row (forget which ones) and so was he (more than me, in fact, since I think he had at least one as a skill).

[Abiyah]

This is ridiculous. In real life it's not against the law to fart in someone's face. But you don't do that because it's rude just like forced emotes are rude. End of story.

There's a small country in Africa that has outlawed "breaking wind" in public. Apparently the farting situation got so out of hand, people were getting sick from breathing the methane, and the gov't made it illegal to fart. That, in this respect, is a cultural issue. I do agree that it is a rude thing to do, fart in someone's face, but you then get into the intentional/unintentional debates.

As far as forced emotes go, the usage is always intentional.

[maxjenius]

This is ridiculous. In real life it's not against the law to fart in someone's face.

Tangent: Non-permissive physical contact is battery. Odors are physical contact.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/cop-hit-gas-attack

More tangent:

As far as forced emotes go, the usage is always intentional.

That is simply untrue, as are most statements with "always" in them. Usually, yes, but unless you say it's impossible to accidentally click the wrong icon on a hot bar, then you can't say it's always intentional.

But that's just another reason to put in an opt out.

[Rakshilady]

I think the root of the problem here is that the average player doesn't like to see *his (or her) character* controlled by *someone else*. And that's why forced emotes were a stupid idea to begin with.

[snip]

The fact that it is even *possible* to force someone else's avatar to perform an action is ridiculous. That's why forced emotes should, in my opinion, be removed entirely from the game. An opt-out is the second-best solution -- if Turbine absolutely feels the need to give players these extraordinary psychic powers to control others, I won't be able to change that and neither will any other member of the playerbase. But the fact is, these skills and consumables are a *bad idea* that only Morgoth could have thought of. Actively encouraging people to use said skills and consumables through deeds is even worse.

I'm just hoping that, sooner or later, a dev will have the courage to come out and say that it was all a big mistake.

THANK YOU! You said exactly what I have *always* felt about these ridiculous and annoying emotes. For the love of ERU get RID of them!! Opt-out is fine if Turbine is going to *insist* on allowing these nonsensical tricks... but give us SOME way to protect ourselves from the rudeness of these juvenile emote-spammers.

[Tarmuar]

I've never once had anyone say something to me about emotes. Never once had anyone tell me I'm griefing them. Never once had anyone ask me to stop using emotes!
It is only because LoTRO takes so long to load that I browse the forums and find out things like this (that people don't like emotes). (Anwiga)

While I applaud you for being so selective, it is a shame that others of our level on Riddermark find it so hilarious to cast FEs on others without asking. I was in Snowbourn today in the Tavern, working relics with the Relic Master to get enough shards for a Level 80 Bridle Relic combine. I had one of those Relic Scrolls burning which give you a 25% chance of critting combines and was on about the last minute of it.

By luck I am sure, this "individual" (level 85) comes plowing into the Tavern, sees me there, and slaps me with two of these harmless FEs, luck would have it he caught me as I was clicking between Tiers to select. Lost the last minute on my scroll for that. I guess I should blame myself for the second FE, of course, since I asked him Please do not do that again.

The "individual" hit me with the second FE (to this point I had thought as many others had that all FEs shared a timer and I wouldn't have to suffer another hit so quickly) and then danced around me as I was forced to the ground, laughed (at least that was a self-contained emote) and ran out the door.

Non-obtrusive and no harm done...yeah right. Riddermark has its share of these "individuals" and perhaps it is sad that those who act responsibly while using FEs are automatically cast into the same crowd, but talk to them about that, not me.

[whheydt]

That is simply untrue, as are most statements with "always" in them. Usually, yes, but unless you say it's impossible to accidentally click the wrong icon on a hot bar, then you can't say it's always intentional.

I think that's an arguable point. Merely by putting the forced emote (either consumable or skill) on a skill bar indicates intent to use it. You could argue that it isn't intentional in a given instance, but the overarching intent is still there or it wouldn't be on the bar.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

[Abiyah]

I think that's an arguable point. Merely by putting the forced emote (either consumable or skill) on a skill bar indicates intent to use it. You could argue that it isn't intentional in a given instance, but the overarching intent is still there or it wouldn't be on the bar.

This was going to be my reply, too, almost word for word even. First there's intent in buying the consummable emotes, then intent in putting them on the quickslots; even with class skills, there's intent for use in putting the emotes on the bars. I have a burg as one of my characters, and have never used the emote burgs have; it's not even on any of my bars.

[Dworin]

I think that's an arguable point. Merely by putting the forced emote (either consumable or skill) on a skill bar indicates intent to use it. You could argue that it isn't intentional in a given instance, but the overarching intent is still there or it wouldn't be on the bar.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Good point! +rep

[Hessli]

This is ridiculous. In real life it's not against the law to fart in someone's face. But you don't do that because it's rude just like forced emotes are rude. End of story.

The people who think forced emotes are rude are a minority group, it's not a society consensus that it's amoral nor is it a governing body's view that it is. Purposely farting in someone's face being rude, is unwanted behaviour by both the wider society and the government (it can fall under various categories or assault or harassment)

If a minority of real life people thought something was rude that not only the majority or society thought was acceptable, but the government were encouraging and rewarding people for doing. I'm afraid the minority are the ones that would need to deal with it and not abuse or blame people for carrying out those actions.

As I said, I'm fully in support of the removal of forced emotes. I don't think they are needed in the game. And I empathise completely with those who feel upset by them. I just don't believe any blame or aggression should be aimed at the players who are doing it, and instead all of the emotion and feedback should go towards Turbine.

[Rakshilady]

The people who think forced emotes are rude are a minority group

I don't believe that for a minute. In fact I think the exact opposite. I think the people who force their emotes on others without any clear understanding of how rude and unwanted such behavior in fact IS are the minority in lotro.... thank god.

I want to play MY game.. not someone elses. Or at the very least I want the option to not be involved in the shenanigans of others. In other words I want some choice in the matter. I usually do.

[Hessli]

I don't believe that for a minute. In fact I think the exact opposite. I think the people who force their emotes on others without any clear understanding of how rude and unwanted such behavior in fact IS are the minority in lotro.... thank god.

I think you're completely wrong. But without any stats to back it up I accept that it's just a matter of opinions.

As per an earlier post, I've never seen anyone in 5 years of kinchat, global, region or local chat respond negatively to someone doing a forced emote, especially ones such as the minstrel group dance that's been in the game practically from the beginning. These forums and specifically this thread, is the first I've seen of anyone caring about it.

As a result of that, I find it hard to believe that those who care enough are anything other than a tiny (yet vocal) minority across the entire playerbase.

[Tiempko]

The people who think forced emotes are rude are a minority group....

I doubt this.

In fact, i wager that if an opt out were provided, those who use forced emotes would soon discover that they almost never work. All but the newest players would ave opted out. Even those who use the emotes, I wager, would opt out of letting others the ability to use it on them.

[Sinful69]

I don't like forced emotes. I think they should only be allowed in the festive areas!

[Rampagingdeath]

I think you're completely wrong. But without any stats to back it up I accept that it's just a matter of opinions.

As per an earlier post, I've never seen anyone in 5 years of kinchat, global, region or local chat respond negatively to someone doing a forced emote, especially ones such as the minstrel group dance that's been in the game practically from the beginning. These forums and specifically this thread, is the first I've seen of anyone caring about it.

As a result of that, I find it hard to believe that those who care enough are anything other than a tiny (yet vocal) minority across the entire playerbase.

As someone who's crossed swords more than once with the 'individuals' you describe I can safely say if you have a flame &&&&&&ant suit now would be a very good time to don it. Have a peruse through the myriad of threads on this issue (there are many) and some of the things in them range from hilarious to downright ridiculous garnished with a side order of wild invention. Typical example, someone claims that the D.R.A.G.O.N. causes them to have headaches because of the sudden flashing, not light of the rising dawn or epic conclusion or a whole host of other ingame skills that produce sudden bursts of bright light but D.R.A.G.O.N. does, after that revelation doesn't achieve anything it goes quite for a month or so and then it rises to 'they give me seizures' that's what you're dealing with. People want a toggle to remove the effect, fine, have it, what rattles me is the lengths that people are prepared to go to to get their own way. I'll give this a few hours before it disappears, the truth doesn't go down to well in this forum.

[Hessli]

I doubt this.

In fact, i wager that if an opt out were provided, those who use forced emotes would soon discover that they almost never work. All but the newest players would ave opted out. Even those who use the emotes, I wager, would opt out of letting others the ability to use it on them.

I don't think that would be an accurate way of gauging how many people think it's rude.

There's an opt out option for someone sending you fellowship requests. That doesn't mean if someone has selected that opt out option that they think everyone who goes around inviting people to a fellowship is being rude and "attacking" people.