Update 9 Loot

[Jamesm429]

My question here is, are the symbols in BG dropping off of trash? I've seen people spamming for "BG Farming runs" in Elendilmir's GLFF, and I was a little confused b/c I expected only bosses would have a chance to drop symbols, and killing bosses locks you until reset. But 12 symbols dropping in a single run sounds more like trash drops to me, unless they cleared fully and got multiple symbols off each boss.

Also, I've yet to see whether Sammath Gûl or any of the small fellowship instances are supposed to have a chance to drop one (I would hope at a minimum SG T2 Challenge would have a chance to drop one off of Gorothul, just like he did at 65). Can any one confirm yet?

Yes it was a Full T2CM BG clear that dropped 12 symbols for us. 3 from Durchest, 2 from Twins and than 7 from LT. But since the hot fix last week, BG T2CM full clear, the most we have seen is 7 symbols, but have now seen 3 Gold Items drop.

[mmogaming]

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Yes it was a Full T2CM BG clear that dropped 12 symbols for us. 3 from Durchest, 2 from Twins and than 7 from LT. But since the hot fix last week, BG T2CM full clear, the most we have seen is 7 symbols, but have now seen 3 Gold Items drop.

The hot fix had nothing to do with the remote looting system as far as we know. Did BG T2 and BG T1 and what's sad....T1 we actually got the champ gold boots twice. T2.....still waiting for the gold.

[oldbadgerbrock]

Amusing how people complain about rewards. Like its only thing why they play game.

You make a very valid point. The problem is that the mechanics of MMORPGs cultivates a culture of materialism where acquiring bigger and better loot becomes the raison d'être. It's very unfortunate.

[Norwrei]

Personally I like the current loot system. I think it's great that each player has the possiblity of getting something nice or nothing at all, instead of only one or two players taking all. That wasn't really fair. Also the way it was before, the roll was too easily exploited.. people were rolling before entering into a raid or group and the way it was working is that start from low to high and start over again. I also do not think the Durchest drop rate needs to be decreased. The only reason people are getting items is due to the sheer volume of how many times people run the raid.

[Durgrim]

heyas folks,

I just wanted to mention to rethink the "exemplary" items bonus one more time.
I've posted it already in the Guardians Board, but please let me get straight, that compared to all other classes, guardians do have a lack of tanking bonus from their golden items.

Compared to thinks like: +4% fire dmg, or +16% crit multiplier, 5% more positional dmg, 3% critmulti for subtle stab, etc.
are nice....


but...

5% more heal from CaB and +3% more dmg from sweeping cut...is nothing really interesting for a tank. It is less than interesting.
3% more Threat from leg. Shield-Smash or 50% more CaB Healing would be something comparable to above mentioned Boni!
When you give the burglars 5% more capability of their class (dps) then pls give the tanks 5% more Threat.
Or another 5s on Pledge...
pls reconsider this once again.

[Southpa]

Instance-unique loot.

If level-cap increases are now a yearly thing (and subsequent gear obsolescence) - and if Turbine continues to fail at the reward v challenge continuum, a large number of players are simply going to get loot by the path of least resistance. Happens every time and it's happening now.

It would have been better if challenge completions at least had a 50% chance to drop a yellow item for some class (not even necessarily a class in on the run). At least people would see the potential in front of their face. What do they see now? "Bounty: Seargent-at-Arms". You tell me how that is motivating?

I'd much rather see a hot piece I couldn't use drop than actually receive something I can vendor for 112 Sliver.

And it also stands to reason that because T1 Durch is such an easy path, people are going to be less interested in T2. This is also happening now.

[Rawlor]

This is how it currently works in-game. The chest checks each potential IXP, Relic, star-lits, etc. individually. The game also does separate checks to see if you get gear. Each check is completely independent from the others.

That's how it usually worked beforehand too, it's just everything was in one big pile before, while now each player gets their own pile.

As for the idea of 'guaranteeing a Teal drop which is handled normally with Master Loot in addition to the individual loot for each player,' while not a bad idea, it isn't something we can currently do. The ideas are certainly appreciated though!

The guarantee was practically there in old runs. In non auto-loot instances I'd guess a teal would drop for *someone* more times than not. Take foundry... it was actually quite rare to not have a teal drop. The challenge chest was pretty much guarenteed one.

As for "base loot" I'll call it, go back and run through NCF & Stoneheight in their old level 65 forms on live and see what kind of loot you get. Crazy amounts of of runes and relics. THAT is what should be guarenteed. The roll should be on what level of said items you get. But regardless you should always get one of them from a chest.

Ran tier 2 challenge... only got bounties. Screw ever doing that ever again.
OR
Ran tier 2 challenge... no teals but at least I got a tier 8 relic from the challenge chest.

^ One of those is better.

[interactii]

I'm starting to think the drop rate for the teals in the new stuff might be too low. 29 runs of peak, and I've never actually seen a teal drop for any player, much less a gold, but so many of the purples they are not even worth a gold now. The challenge chest has never dropped anything good that I've seen either. It's getting hard to keep FF's interest in running them, but hopefully in time. I had to buy the one bracelet I have from there.

I wish there was actually some useful stuff to buy with marks and meds, it would make these runs more attractive to more hardcore folks.

[Namesse]

While I can't really go into the exact specifics with numbers etc., I will say I will be increasing the chance of getting an IXP rune or relic, among other things.

Just want to comment on this: all my toons have enough IXP stocked up to level a First Age, multiple FAs in fact, and deeds and decons keep giving me more. I'm about to the point where next time I need to create space in my vault I will toss a stack on the floor. More relics please, of T7 and T8 levels.

[GithlithMonaghan]

Tiny question within this whole subject: Do golden items drop at Durchest T1? Because even after at least 50 runs each with 12 players I have not seen one class-item drop. That is at least 600 chances for a golden item without one single drop. Is that actually mathematically possible? Or are dropchances even worse than 1/600?

[Crell_1]

Tiny question within this whole subject: Do golden items drop at Durchest T1? Because even after at least 50 runs each with 12 players I have not seen one class-item drop. That is at least 600 chances for a golden item without one single drop. Is that actually mathematically possible? Or are dropchances even worse than 1/600?

Yes golden items drop at Durchest T1. It is mathematically possible.

I find it odd that stat tomes seem more common than these items thus far.

[Jamesm429]

RockX, just to let you know are maybe remind you, when Mirkwood came out, Symbols did drop in the 6 man SG and when you guys scaled School/library, GB and Annuminus, they dropped from there too. That is why I believe people believed they would still drop now in SG.

[Shrewdest]

I don't necessarily have a problem with the quality of the loot itself, my issue with the new system is that it does not reward a greater challenge. By that I mean that I can essentially run something on T1 and seemingly have the exact same shot at the exact same loot as if I ran it on T2. As has been stated before, the equation for repeating content is not solely based on challenge, but a combination of challenge and loot. There needs to be better incentive to run greater/harder challenges.

I've run the three mans on T1 and T2 doing challenge on the second one and have perceived no discernable difference in the loot table. I've received teal pieces on T1 and teal pieces on T2. In BG, you get teal pieces on T1 along with symbols, crystals, etc. In fact, the only seeming difference between running T1 and T2 is a slightly less miserable chance at a gold piece. And the only gold piece that I've seen so far among my regular raiders came from a T2 IP run.

Again, it's been said before, but at least with the old loot system, you knew that there was a shiny teal piece at the end of a T2 run. And for the three mans, there was even a shot at a symbol. If this was possible under the old loot system, then why is it not possible under the new as RockX has said? It seems a step backwards to me.

[Omen_Kaizer]

If level-cap increases are now a yearly thing (and subsequent gear obsolescence) - and if Turbine continues to fail at the reward v challenge continuum, a large number of players are simply going to get loot by the path of least resistance. Happens every time and it's happening now.

It would have been better if challenge completions at least had a 50% chance to drop a yellow item for some class (not even necessarily a class in on the run). At least people would see the potential in front of their face. What do they see now? "Bounty: Seargent-at-Arms". You tell me how that is motivating?

I'd much rather see a hot piece I couldn't use drop than actually receive something I can vendor for 112 Sliver.

And it also stands to reason that because T1 Durch is such an easy path, people are going to be less interested in T2. This is also happening now.

I won't argue that folks don't go by the path of least resistance to get what they want, because they do. I think T2C instances, even with assuming double the chance at golds (2 vs 1 chests, and double very very little is still very little), are only being run in some cases because certain T2Cs still offers little resistance (Iobars, etc). Though obviously nobody rational goes into T2C BG driven by a favorable time:benefit ratio.

But I challenged his specific exaggeration that there's no incentive to do anything but T1 Durchest. It's a low resistance path, but folks don't necessarily get all they want from there.
Durchest has no:
-Might rings
-Vit Rings
-Might (DPS) bracelets
-Will bracelets
-Agi bracelets
-Will earrings
-Vitality earrings
-Agi earrings
-Necklaces of any kind
-Might pockets
-Agi pockets
-Vit pockets

Simply put, if people like hunting shinies, there's reason to do more instances than T1 Durchest.

[phillbvi2]

RockX, could you please check if the Captain gold earring in currently dropping? So far no one has reported getting it and the captain shield appears to be dropping in all the new instances as well as the scaled Mirkwood cluster.

[Omen_Kaizer]

RockX, could you please check if the Captain gold earring in currently dropping? So far no one has reported getting it and the captain shield appears to be dropping in all the new instances as well as the scaled Mirkwood cluster.

Got a captain in my kin with 1 of those earrings. Ridfarwood, though I don't know why my.lotro says otherwise

[MrGiddy]

RockX, could you please check if the Captain gold earring in currently dropping? So far no one has reported getting it and the captain shield appears to be dropping in all the new instances as well as the scaled Mirkwood cluster.

You can keep on farming, the [Earring of the Exemplary Captain] does drop. I've seen at least 3-4 captains using it on Snowbourn.
Though I get why you ask. I've done 50+ IP T2C runs and haven't even seen the bracelet drop yet. Getting my rune-keeper fire-cloak feels like a drag.

[phillbvi2]

Got a captain in my kin with 1 of those earrings. Ridfarwood, though I don't know why my.lotro says otherwise

So if they are dropping, I guess the real question is where does it drop from? Captains have reported getting the shield from every single one of the new instances as well as the new scaled mirkwood ones.

[Omen_Kaizer]

So if they are dropping, I guess the real question is where does it drop from? Captains have reported getting the shield from every single one of the new instances as well as the new scaled mirkwood ones.

Oughta drop from all the Erebor instances. That fella got his from IP.

Captain shield seems to be dropping from the Mirkwood stuff (I got mine from Warg Pens), but I think it might be mistakenly dropping from Erebor stuff too. I've seen a Malledhrim RK item drop from Iobars and Malledhrim Warden cloak from Scuttledells, which I don't think was intended. I don't suspect that's blocking us from getting Exemplary items, but I may be wrong.

[Hordan]

About the teal drop rate in new system, especially in 3 and 6 man.

After doing 25-30 T2 CM Iobar's Peaks, 5 Sword Halls T2 CM, 5 Webs of the Scuttledells T2 CM, 5 Seat of the Goblins Seat T2 CM I did loot 1 teal (earring from sword hall)... Normaly I would say I had no luck, but in 90% cases I did those 3man with my friends and they didnt get even a single teal in these runs with me. So runs I did its 1 teal item per 40-45 3man T2 with Challeng per 3 ppl. It is around 2-2,5% drop rate per team (0,7-0,8 per man)!!! I know being a bit more lucky geting extra teal and we would have 5% drop rate but on the other hand I know ppl who still didnt see teal droping in 3man. This is insane especially compared to what we had in RoI's 3man. There was a huge chance (by huge I mean 10-15 teals or more in 20 runs) of geting teal from T2 CM, of course from time to time we won item meant not for any of classes in the team but still chance to get useable teal was around 40-60%...

So now we have this remote looting which is great but not with such chance to get teal. My question is was it so hard to take old teal drop rate and just devide it by 3 as there is 3 ppl in 3man so averagly there would be the same amount of teals (general).

Realy I am disapointed, I have this feeling that Turbine's workers lack of some kind math education. And no in my opinion its no time for experimentation for drop rate. 3man are here since Library and School, the drop rate should be known long time ago and slightly improved if need not learn from 0 like it looks now... And new loot system also isnt a reason for me of that, as it was enought to take drop rates from RoI's instances and devide it but 3,6 or 12 as loot is now for each person not for the team...

[Castorix]

It is a question of chance.
For example, a friend got the Athgrat's Polished Ring just by trying a simple T1 run of Warg-pens...

[MoonwalkIntoMordor]

I did 5 tier 1 Dungeons runs in the last couple days. Saved enough prisoners to open the biggest chest in all of them. All I got at the very end was 1 sealed tier 5 relic and 5 bounties. The worst part is that nobody else in the groups got anything better either. There were zero equipment drops in total, not even purples. I don't know, maybe that is your intention. But there was a time when you could do the instance in its easiest form and still get a lot of relics and IXP, with at least 1 equipment from each chest.

Oh, don't get me wrong though. I have been seeing a lot of new teals around. The auction house is overflowing with Gwannin, Charred Armour Fragments, Earring of the Necromancer's Tower, Eternal Knights Bracelet... What do those all have in common? Durchest. All of those are from Durchest. People are farming it on Tier 1 like mad, for the currency and crystals. There are half a dozen groups running it at any given time. People have started giving these items away to first tells.

A 3 year old raid encounter is being run many times more than all of your new small fellowship instances combined, because once again the reward/effort ratio is just so ridiculously skewed in some instances that running others is just pointless.

I can only hope the second half doesn't end up like this.

Simply put, if people like hunting shinies, there's reason to do more instances than T1 Durchest.

There is nothing for me anyway. No agility bracelets. No agility necklaces. No agility pockets. No decent agility earring except that one from BG Twins (ha ha ha. yeah, right).

I have absolutely no idea what there is for Burglars and Hunters in this update. Boots? More boots?

Hunting for the new shinies is a massive waste of time either way, considering the shinies are either very rare or very undesirable. You'll be getting no drops whatsoever for 50 runs, then end up finding that &&&&e shiny that you didn't want.

Durchest at least rewards you for your time input with currency and crystals. Too bad I haven't run it at all yet because I have already overdosed on it during 2010.

[MIA_Reborn]

loot? for every step forward take 10 steps backwards for loot. Its almost predictable....

[Omen_Kaizer]

There is nothing for me anyway. No agility bracelets. No agility necklaces. No agility pockets. No decent agility earring except that one from BG Twins (ha ha ha. yeah, right).

I have absolutely no idea what there is for Burglars and Hunters in this update. Boots? More boots?

Hunting for the new shinies is a massive waste of time either way, considering the shinies are either very rare or very undesirable. You'll be getting no drops whatsoever for 50 runs, then end up finding that &&&&e shiny that you didn't want.

Durchest at least rewards you for your time input with currency and crystals. Too bad I haven't run it at all yet because I have already overdosed on it during 2010.

Sounds to me like you just don't like hunting shinies if rarity deters you, even while the drop rate is lower than maybe it oughta be.
But as for what Agis get: yeah there's Prudence from Twins. Don't know why you're laughing. Dead server?
Former Resident's Ring from Dungeons. Just get a group and rip through T2 non challenge once every 8 minutes. Eventually you get lucky.
There's Marubh's Something Bracelet from GG. Don't remember what it has besides 150 agi. Either 75 vit 38 fate or 75 fate 38 vit. Probably not more appealing than Huntsman, probably moreso than Footpad. Dunno your gear.
That's better than me as a might class, who basically just needed might rings and a pocket to upgrade. If I had owned a flask already, the journal pocket wouldve been a sidegrade.

I do think teal drop rate oughta be tweaked. I wouldn't ever argue that the loot chance in U9 isn't in a rough state. Like I said earlier in this thread, the teal-to-purple ratio in the check that occurs after it's been determined that loot was won oughta be shifted more in teal's favor.

Despite too-low drops rates, the fellow who said that only Durchest is worth running thanks to Turbine was apparently ignoring that other content offers potential rewards that Durchest simply does not yield. And if someone wants those other rewards enough, they'll grind the content to get them. Which was the entire point of what you quoted.

[Tarmas_Eldar]

I must confess that I am perplexed as to why Turbine have always found itemisation so hard. By 'itemisation' I don't just mean the design of the items but the overall effort/time/difficulty/reward ratio in instances.

Rockx is clearly a good guy. We all greatly appreciate the level of his engagement on the forums and he obviously both means well and works hard. Which means there is something else wrong, either some insurmountable difficulty or complication I don't get, or some deep cultural/design problem in Turbine.

I ran all three new 3-man the other day with a GRD/CPT and me on CMP. T2C modes for these are hard, especially in Scuttledells. They take time and effort. This is good, I'm not complaining. But from around 4 hours of play we got nothing other than deed completion medallions, bounties and a feeling of satisfaction. There is no reason to go back. It is very dispiriting. We had this with Fornost. I'll run anything once or twice for novelty, the new experience and deeds. But after that there has to be some sort of reward and a bounty doesn't cut it.

Why are we still having these discussions nearly six years after launch?