The Road to Mordor: Could Lord of the Rings Online end in 2014?

[Vellrad]

LOL just like ones here were boasting on GW2 going to kill this game. Same ol same ol hyperbole garbage.

Just because that game will have a new engine doesnt mean everyone is gonna flock to it & love it.

They kept saying XXX is going to kill lotro, but it was not true.
XXX will never kill lotro.

TESO, Rift going f2p, or any new games on the horison will not kill LotRO, they will merely deal coup de grace, as LotRO is slowly beign slain by Turbine (same as DDO, BTW).

[Kongas]

1. Ultima Online

2. Everquest

There are probably other old MMOs chugging along that I cannot think of.

Are they run by an avaricious and ruthless multi-national like WB? I hope the optimists are right but I don't want to play a lotro languishing in a backwater offering outdated gameplay through outdated game engines. I want it to be as good as the competition and deliver value for money.

The reason I think Elder Scrolls represents a bigger threat is that it is a long-established and popular game world AND crucially (unlike say Neverwinter) it is being delivered by the people who have made this world for the last 20 years. It isn't going to be a cynical cash-grab like NW. Maybe they will screw up and it'll be &&&& but MMO gameplay is moving on and IMHO in some aspects, leaving LOTRO behind. Even NW does a lot of stuff better.

I bet I'm not alone in thinking that the WB/Turbine linkup has led to a downward spiral of less quality and quantity of product alongside ever rising prices with the priority on Store-friendly game mechanics and features.

I guess I only play LOTRO now, partially out of habit and partially because of time and money invested. But the game-world is a big part of it. The Elder Scrolls offers another deep game-world I've spent many years playing in. Currently the LOTRO game plan seems to be stripping it down to being an online single player game aimed at monetising casual FTP. Maybe that is working.

I guess what some of us are saying really is not that LOTRO will die but the LOTRO that we originally started playing will, if it hasn't already. For me if Helm's Deep doesn't offer me skirmishes, instance clusters and raids at prices I don't think are just cynically taking the piss I do expect the lure of a promising Elder Scrolls will prove tempting. And I do expect it'll be a better quality game that will appeal to a similar customer base as the original lotro.

Sadly I think WB have already written off players like me. They don't want to spend the resources on group content and they don't count on us as a revenue stream. What they want is a churn of customers who sign up to FTP who can be profitably milked as they race to cap.

I do really hope I'm too pessimistic. I'd love to see LOTRO return to its glory days with a well-designed, value for money Helms Deep that is a lot, lot more than an over-priced quest pack crippled by massive ill-thought out and untested game mechanic changes.

Given the recent quality track record and given what we have been told and given what is conspicuously not being said I'm not holding my breath.

[Thorwyn99]

Are they run by an avaricious and ruthless multi-national like WB?

SOE and EA.... Yes i'd say they very much are.

[cossieuk]

WB will only renew the licence if they believe that the game will be profitable over the period of the licence. If they dont think this will be the case they would renew it.

[Firemane0]

They kept saying XXX is going to kill lotro, but it was not true.
XXX will never kill lotro.

TESO, Rift going f2p, or any new games on the horison will not kill LotRO, they will merely deal coup de grace, as LotRO is slowly beign slain by Turbine (same as DDO, BTW).

Actually Lotro is being slain by an increasingly toxic forum community, most of which probably don't even play the game anymore.. just troll, who spend their spare time telling people how much the game sucks, arguing about lack of information when the information is right in front of them and whining complaining and boo booing about having to fork out money on a game that they haven't even bothered to pay a sub for since the game went free to play.

[Brinswith]

Sadly the only threat to LOTRO is Turbines continued incompetence with content releases and patches, grouped with WB's apparent unwillingness to invest in the game. At times and indeed the first two years Turbine rarely set a foot wrong and had one of the smoothest game launches i can recall. However they now seem at times to be hell bent on ripping the game to shreds all for another dollar.

It seems to be commonplace now with Turbine take it in turns and to try and push each player subset as far as they possibly can to see if it will break them and cause them to leave the game.

edit: @ Firemane, Turbine must take part responsibility for the toxic threads on the forums they have bred and nurtured the community into what it is now through their own constant miscommunication and through heavy handed moderation of the forums.

[Firemane0]

Sadly the only threat to LOTRO is Turbines continued incompetence with content releases and patches, grouped with WB's apparent unwillingness to invest in the game. At times and indeed the first two years Turbine rarely set a foot wrong and had one of the smoothest game launches i can recall. However they now seem at times to be hell bent on ripping the game to shreds all for another dollar.

It seems to be commonplace now with Turbine take it in turns and to try and push each player subset as far as they possibly can to see if it will break them and cause them to leave the game.

edit: @ Firemane, Turbine must take part responsibility for the toxic threads on the forums they have bred and nurtured the community into what it is now through their own constant miscommunication and through heavy handed moderation of the forums.

The only thing i have seen on a regular basis on these forums are posters who twist official posts to the point of them being not even remotely close to what was said in an effort to cause further chaos and unrest in the community. Often times going to the point of outright stupidity in the case of the last double point complaint fiasco to accusing them of trying to addict children to gambling because of the the chest bonuses while merrily avoiding the fact that their festivals involve the consumption of alcohol, some of their quests and crafting involving the growing of pipe tobacco (A tobacco that to this day seems more like MJ then anything else), the slaughter of innocent animals and outright vigilantism.

I can understand why they might want to be very careful what they discuss and why they might want to delete posts that are outright lies. MMorpgs are nothing more then a gigantic game of telephone as it is without garbage being added

[Brinswith]

Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, even thought its incorrect. Placing the blame entirely on the community is folly. Turbine as as much to blame for the reasons i discussed above.

[Firemane0]

Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, even thought its incorrect. Placing the blame entirely on the community is folly. Turbine as as much to blame for the reasons i discussed above.

Well for one explain to me how the double point dispute was incorrect when the information was plainly stated and yet still managed to turn into yet another rallying point about turbines greed.

[Kongas]

Well for one explain to me how the double point dispute was incorrect when the information was plainly stated and yet still managed to turn into yet another rallying point about turbines greed.

Why don't you link us to this epic thread so we can see how many hundreds of people were complaining as this whole controvery has passed me by.

[Brinswith]

Well for one explain to me how the double point dispute was incorrect when the information was plainly stated and yet still managed to turn into yet another rallying point about turbines greed.

It certainly did not confuse me and yes some people did misinterpret the information given. Nobody is saying the playerbase is not at fault some of the time, however you are implying that Turbine at at fault none of the time. Which is to be frank, Bollocks

[Vellrad]

Actually Lotro is being slain by an increasingly toxic forum community, most of which probably don't even play the game anymore.. just troll, who spend their spare time telling people how much the game sucks, arguing about lack of information when the information is right in front of them and whining complaining and boo booing about having to fork out money on a game that they haven't even bothered to pay a sub for since the game went free to play.

So, turbine putting weak raids, weak group content, terrible mounted combat, boring daily quests, solo only update, nerfing UI and launcher is perfectly fine, while people stating the obvious, that devs are worse then ever, are to blame?
Brilliant.

[Brinswith]

Just before anyone accuses me of trolling, I play the game daily for up to 8 hours i always have. I feel i should be excused in my sense of entitlement to be critical of the company that i see bleeding the game and the community dry of fun and money.

[Glumposneak]

i also remember seeing a response of sapience saying that lotro would go on much longer... so i guess this fuzz is not needed

All due respect to Sapience, but he would be one of the last to know if Warner did pull the plug.

When Codemasters offered cheap lifetime accounts, some people speculated it woud be going free to play, they were ridiculed, about 2 months later it went free to play.

People speculated about codemasters loosing their license, again such people were ridiculed by others on the forums. Turned out they were 100% right.

Personally I hope Tuirbine keep lorto for many years as I do love playing it, and I hope the only reason they haven't publicly commented is because they are still negotiating a price to keep the licence.

That said, there are a lot of similarities as to the way Turbine, WB are behaving to the way other companies such as Codemasters behaved before they lost their license. And if you throw logic into it, alarm bells can start ringing.

For example, I wont buy the expansion and wont buy any more TP until I know they do have the license and it wont be shutting in 2014 and I suspect there are many like me. Turbine must realise people are thinking like this.

Logic says if Turbine,WB will 100% be keeping the license and the game running, they have zero reason not to publically say so.

The fact that so far this hasn't happened, well logically it can be down to just 3 reasons.

1) Turbine/WB are still in negotiation about the price and are determined to keep Lotro at all costs put don't want to publically say so as that could push the price they have to pay, up.

2) A similar situation but Turbine/WB are not prepared to pay any price, hence the future of Lotro isn't guarenteed.

3) WB don't intend renewing the licence

Any of them could be true and until Turbine or WB make an announcement, these rumours will thrive, and all the time they do thrive, less and less people will decide to give Lotro a go (again Turbine will be aware of this) meaning the daily figures will look worse and worse.

So no one really knows.

The way all businesses I've worked for and others I've seen work, things carry on as normal, meetings about future development happen even on the morning where the plug on a project or whatever is pulled.

So Turbine, Sapience etc could have a meeting in the morning, Sapience could post on here at lunch time about great plans for the next 6 months, and two hours later WB could pull the plug, that is sadly how businesses work.

So until it's publkically anoounced Lotro will continue, no one really knows and anyone that says it will stay going or anyone that says it will close, is simply guessing.

[Edrogar]

The fact that so far this hasn't happened, well logically it can be down to just 3 reasons.

1) Turbine/WB are still in negotiation about the price and are determined to keep Lotro at all costs put don't want to publically say so as that could push the price they have to pay, up.

2) A similar situation but Turbine/WB are not prepared to pay any price, hence the future of Lotro isn't guarenteed.

3) WB don't intend renewing the licence

I don't think i've seen any company announce IP licenses before it happens apart from the initial license. DC:U have renewed their license twice now iirc and they didn't announce it until the day it happened, MxO updated their license about 2 months after SOE took it over, they didn't announce the extension until a week before hand. I haven't seen Funcom announce Conans licens being updated either yet it must have been by now.

Sometimes silence isn't omission, sometimes silence is just silence because there's nothing important enough to be said.

[Edrogar]

WB will only renew the licence if they believe that the game will be profitable over the period of the licence. If they dont think this will be the case they would renew it.

Actually i have a feeling WB will renew the license no matter what their plans for LotRO are, i'm pretty sure they will renew and negotiate some clauses so that even if LotRO fails nobody else can lease the license and produce their own game, in case in the future they decide they want to make another LotRO.

[Glumposneak]

I don't think i've seen any company announce IP licenses before it happens apart from the initial license. DC:U have renewed their license twice now iirc and they didn't announce it until the day it happened, MxO updated their license about 2 months after SOE took it over, they didn't announce the extension until a week before hand. I haven't seen Funcom announce Conans licens being updated either yet it must have been by now.

Sometimes silence isn't omission, sometimes silence is just silence because there's nothing important enough to be said.

True but was there speculation and rumours about those games (I genuinely don't know)

A fair few people have said they aren't buying any more TP etc until they know for definite the games continuing.

[Edrogar]

Are they run by an avaricious and ruthless multi-national like WB? I hope the optimists are right but I don't want to play a lotro languishing in a backwater offering outdated gameplay through outdated game engines. I want it to be as good as the competition and deliver value for money.

Are they run by an avaricious and ruthless multi-national like WB? Erm .. yes .. ifatc they're both run by worse companies than WB, UO is run by EA/Mythic/BW one of the worst money grabbing scoundrels in the gaming world, and EQ is owned and run by Sony Online Entertainment, a bona fide runner up for EA's title.

And also yes, they are both also languishing in a backwater offering outdated gameplay through outdated game engines. UO is still a 2D isometric game with very basic "local" chat and private message features, most guilds and groups use mIRC to communicate.

Yet, despite the draw backs those games are still running after 16/14 years.

[Brinswith]

I do have to agree with Edrogar, as an ex Star Wars Galaxies player, SOE are by far worse than WB/Turbine. It still gives me ngemares.

[Kongas]

And also yes, they are both also languishing in a backwater offering outdated gameplay through outdated game engines. UO is still a 2D isometric game with very basic "local" chat and private message features, most guilds and groups use mIRC to communicate.

Yet, despite the draw backs those games are still running after 16/14 years.

Yea, well that pretty much meets my definition of game 'death'. I'm not getting any younger and life's getting increasingly too short to play the same old same old. I want to be excited when I log in. I want to be anticipating fun. There is nothing exciting about logging in to do 5 Wildermore dailies.

I log in, spend 15 minutes doing them and then I log off. Give some content to do and i'd be spending TP. Give me content to buy and I'd buy it. It's like they don't even want my money.

I actually do expect a steady stream of new content for me and my kin to do. I do expect new skirmishes and new instance clusters every few months and I sure as hell expect an expansion pack to be more than 200 cookie-cutter landscape quests at the prices they charge.

But if LOTRO is still around for a nostalgic log-in every now and then and it's still enjoyable enough for some people still to play that would be good.

[Kongas]

I do have to agree with Edrogar, as an ex Star Wars Galaxies player, SOE are by far worse than WB/Turbine. It still gives me ngemares.

Wasn't that LUCASARTS reclaiming the IP rather than SOE pulling the plug?

[Thorwyn99]

Wasn't that LUCASARTS reclaiming the IP rather than SOE pulling the plug?

Been a while but i think the official reason was something around the line about not being in competition with the then released SwTor.
Who actually pulled the plug i can't really remember though.

[Brinswith]

Wasn't that LUCASARTS reclaiming the IP rather than SOE pulling the plug?

at the end of the games life yes, but the fault with SOE was long before the game was pulled. John Smedley single handedly killed the game for many of the players overnight with the NGE with the beginnings of that way back with the combat upgrade. But that is neither here nor there in this thread.

[Dordain]

Actually Lotro is being slain by an increasingly toxic forum community, most of which probably don't even play the game anymore.. just troll, who spend their spare time telling people how much the game sucks, arguing about lack of information when the information is right in front of them and whining complaining and boo booing about having to fork out money on a game that they haven't even bothered to pay a sub for since the game went free to play.

This right here is a very poor strawman. The minority of people on these forums that maintain that everything is fine are frankly starting to seem downright delusional in the face of the reprehensible job Turbine has done at development within the last couple of years(the last six months in particular).

[Kongas]

at the end of the games life yes, but the fault with SOE was long before the game was pulled. John Smedley single handedly killed the game for many of the players overnight with the NGE with the beginnings of that way back with the combat upgrade. But that is neither here nor there in this thread.

True, that was a dreadful misjudgment. But relevant to LOTRO and this thread given 'the major class revamp' we're having imposed on us without any discussion. Given the mess made of even relatively simple changes recently I'm not at all confident this isn't going to be a shambles.