Recovery state - Created for Jinjaah

[mrfigglesworth]

My suggestion here it will be or reduce the damage from yellow line or increase the damage in single target line.

Please for the love of Gandalf do not nerf yellow line to make red line feel better!!!! Just give red love

Also, true heroics is scant used since its on a 5 min cd with 12 sec duration. Please lower the cooldown.

[Jinjaah]

Red line feels like I'm swinging a wet noodle at a brick wall, underwater.

Yeah I am not happy with the single target DPS disparity between yellow and Red. Red was intended to be a boom or bust build, but seems to be busting more often than booming. This is something I am actively looking into for update 13.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Red Line needs a massive boost in damage of at least 70 to 80%, I also think that the old Rend (costs pips, no stacking bleeds) should be made a general skill, (with the enhanced version yellow only). Both Red and Blue need more AOE, and a Yellow only Rend Armor debuff would make Yellow the go to spec in groups even if Red DPS is fixed.

Yellow Line for the most part is fine, the relatively small problems are bugs like Raging Blades extra strikes still not getting the damage per pip bonus, Bladestorm being pretty much useless, and the very meh nature of the Born for Combat capstone ability. The requirement of getting hit 10 times doesn't really fit with Yellow line, and it is not as good as our better AOE's. I would make Born for Combat a FAST skill, give it the larger radius of Raging Blades and the unlimited targets of Furry of Blades, that would help make it a worthy capstone ability.

I haven't used Blue Line enough to suggest much, but as I said above it could use more AOE.

I like Rend being where it is and giving the red line champ some more avenues of DPS.

Yellow I agree, we have fixed some bugs on the raging blade extra strikes but I will look into it further. Born for Combat could use some other passive element to it to make it a little sexier as a capstone trait.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

I made my thoughts fairly well articulated over in this thread. It's a long read, but I think well worth it.

Yes, this was a very informative read. Taken a bunch of notes from it and plan to address some of the issues in there. I have some plans for minor changes that may negate some of the need for skills like Seeking Blades coming back so after 12.2 goes out the door, we can talk more in detail about that sort of stuff. I also think Hedge will be coming back. The intention was to not take it away, but give it in another form and that just fell through. Y'all need a disarm removal back and it is coming.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Yes I know, I don't think it is enough, I think both Red and Blue need another short cooldown AOE besides Bladewall.

I think Red does need a little bit of cooldown adjustments, which I would rope in to some changes for another dps pass in the future. Blue definitely needs a little more. Its not quite as active as we would have liked.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

The two threads already linked cover almost everything.

To me, the #1 issue is Hedge, we need it back ASAP. See the above threads if one needs to have the reasons why spelled out.

Since we only get two trait specs at a time, the failure of red line is not something I can address. It clearly needs to be fixed - embarrassing for the "ST line" to do lower ST damage than the AoE line - but people who actually (try to) use red can cover that much better than I could. Though I do agree with someone in another thread that the ST/AoE separation seems very strained, artificial, and not very sensible. Champs have always been very good at both simultaneously in the past.

One thing that I think hasn't been mentioned much is Fear Nothing. I haven't played all the classes since HD, but champ is the only one I know of that still has only a single type debuff remover skill like this. Burglar's Antidote now removes any of the four flavors of debuff, and wardens got First Aid with the same functionality. I'm pretty sure Story of Courage and Muster Courage were changed in the same way, though I'm not 100% sure since I haven't done much other than crafting on my mini and captain yet. Fear Nothing should be the champion's version of this skill, rather than remaining fear-only.

Yeah see my previous comment about hedge.

I will look into Fear Nothing in relation to other classes and will tentatively agree with you on this.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Mr Champ Dev Sir

I ask that when you consider changes to the champion please don't change the flavor of the ardour champ. It's such a beautiful combat flow and aside from the might and finesse traits that never ever ever get used, traits and bonuses are spot on and useful. Well, to be honest, one thing that has happened is bladestorm is now the red headed step child skill of ardour. I would suggest making bladestorm have a range of 8 meters or possibly hit as many targets as raging blades or both, since it costs more pips than raging blades but does less damage than blade wall, fury of storm, and raging blades. It needs something to make those 4 pips worth it. The only thing I can think of that makes it useful is the ardour moors bonus against wars packs to keep slows on them.

There are many wonderful suggestions to redline so I feel the need to keep quiet and let the experts speak on this matter, but I know whenever I trait redline I feel like a clunky awkward teenage boy at his first middle school dance. It needs something to make it pop. I take that back, one thing I would love to see is the sprint trait giving a significant boost to sprint. I mean good grief, it's so far down red line it should really do something nice like cut sprint cd in half or maybe increase the speed by 5% per trait point or something. The base skill is good but seeing captains with a groupwide sprint with a 1 min 30 sec cd (or something like that) makes the champ 5 min cd sprint seem a bit archaic.

Don't worry, the intention is to bring the red line up to the yellow and surpass it in some respects for single target effectiveness, not nerf yellow to red.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Hello Jinjaah,
Right now, I think the biggest problem is red line DPS/Surviveability. I'm in the Moors most of the time, and I'm on 18 audacity (missing one piece), but I get literally slaughtered by wargs and Reavers in red. That's because they do the same DPS as I do, but they have thrice my morale. Also, combat feels really slow, because of the attack delay between skills (Ferocious - Battle Frenxy - Remorseless). The time between BF and RS is horribly long. If course I know the reason, but maybe some champ skills should be made Fast.

Agreed, the idea was that the offensive side of you would be the downfall to the lack of defensiveness. Some things changed in Beta that negated this which is really sad to see. Red line champ was my first ever character and the state it is currently in is very much a let down to me.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

[Likewise, I'd respectfully prefer if Jinjaah would address the issues listed on the other two threads, so as to keep discussion focused, not to mention the great deal of time it took to put them together. This thread would still be useful for miscellaneous questions directed at the developer.]
^ Disregard this, since several people have already used this thread for suggestions, let's try to keep it all here. I've moved my original list of solutions to another post below.

At any rate, I'll start with a question:

Do developers actually play around extensively with their creations, as in, did you roll a champ post-revamp and give it a spin yourself Jin, or did all the input regarding the changes have to come from internal alpha testing and later on the public beta?

It seems to me that the Champion class lost most of it's individuality in the process, as the go to DPS class for smacking stuff hard with melee weapons and taking the occasional beating and living to tell the tale. Just about every other class now can deal huge damage just as well, and at the moment, even better than Champions, who were supposed to be one of the few DPS oriented classes (along with hunters, burglars, and later RKs). I guess making every other class have a viable DPS role is logical in regards to the 'Solo Everything' mindset LOTRO seems to be heading towards, but it certainly dilutes the former identity of the champion, when all other classes seem to do our job better than ourselves.

Our other points of uniqueness, bubbles and breaking out of cc, well everyone else just about seems to have those now. All in all, the current champion almost feels like a watered down version of it's former self. =(

I'm sure you can sympathize with our frustrations Jin, and given all the years we've looked in admiration at this class we're hoping you can remind us again that the Champion is actually meant to be a champion.

Thanks again for dropping by and providing input!

I think the perception of the champion losing its individuality is not really fair to say, but I will say it was hit hardest than most classes because it was a simple yet well oiled machine previously. The switch to trait trees, while not there yet, is basically telling the utility knife to focus on being scissors or a knife. And that is a hard pill to swallow. I do feel however that if red felt more powerful and blue had a little more active play in it, the pill wouldn't nearly be as hard to swallow as it is right now.

To answer your question about devs playing their classes, the answer is yes. We played everything a lot. I played the champion a ton and that was kind of what lead to the downfall of the dps of the red line. For example, during implementation, the berserker champ was very heavily crit based. That was where most of the power was coming from. As we continued to play the class, the boom overtook the bust. We were worried about those crit numbers and scaled them back. Unfortunately, it ended up being too much of a step back, putting the red line where it is now.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Not sure but damage is pretty screwed up in this game after the class revamp, i would much more prefer they went across the board and fixed all that.

As mentioned to hunters, difficulty is something we will continue to address over the next few updates.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Hello Jinjaah,

I'm agree in part, that our red line (ST dps) is lower than our ST dps in yellow (AoE dps). Or the fact that champs are among the bottom feeders in terms of dps among the classes atm like minstrel single dps for example. I would like to give my opinion about things that champs can improve .

Berseker line:

Bugs:

Champion Duels : I got noticed, that Champions duel seems is not working correctly. Aniquilador tried to use Champions Duel on Zlatka but she parried the attemp. When is supposed that the skill is tactical. And she did not recived the effect from the skill :/. Even when it lands its partially broken. You get the damage buff but the opponent doesn't get either of the debuffs.

Suggestions:

Increase the dps : What don't have too much sense in my opinion is that yellow line do more damage in single target than red line. I'm agree that yellow line has to do more damage when there are more than 1 mob arround . But what don't have any sense is that rend skill for example, hit 7k to 1 mob when brutal strikes hits 2200 per hit :/. Or also that one minstrel hit more with one piercing cry that champ with fs. My suggestion here it will be or reduce the damage from yellow line or increase the damage in single target line.

Wild Attack : This skill does not count as a Strike skill. It doesn't get affected by the strike skills damage trait that was put in to replace the base +20% damage that Fervour stance used to give. So a 20% base damage loss on auto attacks combined with the damage loss on WA (our most spammed pip builder) nets a substantial dps loss. The damage/pip component from the Fervour trait doesn't help WA either since you don't use builders at 3+ pips, most of the time it's 0 pips or 1.My suggestion here it will be to put wa like strike skill for recive that 10% aswell from strike skill.

Vicious Strikes : This trait is also partially broken. It says +10% crit chance for Additional strikes. The real problem though is that single strike skills cannot take advantage of this trait at all. Remorseless, Devastating and Merciful strikes don't get the +10% crit chance bonus from this trait. Seeing as this only affects Brutal Strikes and only the last 2 strikes this again results in a massive dps loss over all. My opinion is that this trait has to affect also to a single strike skills.

Blood Rage/Continuous Blood Rage : This skill should be made immediate. I know I've been going on about this a lot, but a CC removal skill that often doesn't go off until after the CC effect has expired is not that great, especially considering the cooldown is now 1m (up from 1s). Controlled Burn would benefit from this, too.

Renewing strikes : is still quite bad, it works out at .5% morale per strike. The application chance should be bumped up to ~20%.

Legacies : The legacy that increase 10% damage from merciful is pretty good but instead to increase the damage 10% i think it will be more useful to decrease the cd from the skill from 10s up to 5s for example. The damage from merciful in my opinion is quite bad aswell even with the 10% more damage from the legacy

Heroics : This skill at this moment definitly has to change. At least or put the bubble back or the crtical rating that we had before the hd expansion. The currently effect is really bad and the cd pretty long for this effect (12s).

Brancing attack : Don't have too much sense that you still reciving the same amount of healing that when you had 10 levels less, that healing needs to be improved imo. I also really miss the hot, due that if you have 22k morale (more or less) and you just recover arroun 2k from the skill and you need to spent 3 points of fervour for use it , without the hot the skill feels quite low in terms of healing. Also the description of the skill does not say that if you miss the hit you still reciving the heal on you.

Devastating Strike : Would be nice if this skill even if you miss the hit you still reciving the 2 points of fervour.

Red line in ettemoors:

Well the main problem that i see apart from the lack of dps compared to other classes and the difference of dps between yellow and red line is the mitigations and the cd of the skills from some creep classes:

Orc-Craft and Fell-Wrought : If you just mitigate a 30% of this damage is like all we are light armours against certain creep classes like reavers, wargs, or ba. I don't see the point to have the tact mit really hight f you just mitigate 30%. Just is useful in case to mitigate some dots becasue there are common (phy mit) but tactical mit against this classes seems obsolet. Also i was checking this link that i put below and looking in the previous expansion, we had more or less 60% tact mit, that is = 0.72 Tdr, now is 0.3= 0.51, so our Tdr is 21% less. Or what is the same, we will recive 21% more damage than before :/.

Link of the table: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...mage-Reduction

Wrath/upper hand/blinding dust : Those 3 skills are practically permanent on you: If you include that impale is orc craft damage and the skills says that negate the 30% of mitigation , don't know if it will be like you have 0 mit against this skill or is that it would be 30% over the 30% ,that in this case you can mitgate just 9% of the damage :/. Apart from impale the main problem for champ here is that you can't compete against 2.5% morale back with wrath practically permanent, when champion recover 3% morale back during 40s every 2m 20s + against the odds that give you 15% morale back if you have the trait.

Warleaders Healings. At this moment for red champ is impossible to kill a war leader on healing mode with red line. Our lack of dps in this line makes that war leader can heal more than the dps that we can do on them..

I think this is all for the moment. I think that in the other links that we have about champion problems they summarized our main issues really well.

All great suggestions that I will look into. Seems like from reading this, I can see a few additional bugs in the red line that I will address in the future. For pvmp damage types, I have a fix for this, but might have to wait for u13 as it will affect big battles balance at the same time.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

General:
I find my post-HD champion a lot of fun to play, and I thoroughly enjoyed your interaction with us during Beta, Jinjaah. Thank you for returning to us at this time, looking forward to read more of you!

I predominantly play in yellow line on all my champions (erm .. yes, about half of my alts are actually champions. I just love champions). I have dabbled with blue and found it consistently more survivable.

What's really holding me back from doing anything else than yellow line is the way all my buttons get mixed up when I change trait. That to me is the single most showstopper that will keep me in yellow just about forever. Could you please fix this?

Feedback about the champion that has nothing to do with the lines is the absurdly low difficulty on landscape. I strongly feel this is because landscape mobs hit like wet noodles and my gear has more +vit than I like. Please take this feedback to the landscape mob and itemization dev:
1) Landscape mobs (in particular signature and elite) need to do a lot more damage
2) DPS classes need gear that allows for 'glass cannon' builds. Right now the best DPS gear also has heaps of +VIT, making it impossible to play the 'glass cannon' style.

All the above really isn't about the class traits. So let's go there now, here's my specific input for each of the lines:

Blue line:
1) Needs hedge to get out of disarm situations. This line should have a form of hedge with lowest cooldown.
2) Needs replacement of the filler +vit with something a lot more meaningful. How about +% evade?

Red line:
1) Needs a hell of a lot more single target damage. How about adding that in the shape of +% devastate damage? I would like huge single target burst damage from red line. That's not totally reliable but when it happens it's KABAAAAM.
2) Needs hedge to get out of disarm situations. Default cooldown, but with a chance to disarm the opponent.

Yellow line:
1) Needs hedge to get out of disarm situations. Default hedge suffices.
2) Born of combat is a fun concept. It takes a good AoE situation to get hit 10 times, which means the capstone is usable in AoE heavy fights. I think that's great. The damage may be upped, as it's a lot less than raging blades and raging blades is spammable. Born of Combat is not spammable, so when it's available it should be KABAAM.

There is a fix coming for 12.2 that includes trait pages remembering skill locations. (And there was much rejoicing)

As mentioned before, difficulty will be addressed as we move forward, we got some very talented people on the case.

The issue of gear also has to do with some under the hood things that we need to fix. But I will make sure to sit down with itemization and discuss these concerns.

blue line: See my previous comment on hedge but I agree. In terms of blue line trait tree, yeah it needs some changes, lot of filler, not enough active play there.

red line: agreed on both points.

Yellow Line: Agreed on both points.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

A lot of good suggestions in this thread that weren't included in my list of solutions. With that in mind, I thought it would be easier to paste my original list here as well in order to make it easier for Jinjaah and consolidate his answers to a single thread. I recommend Asperity, who also provided a detailed analysis of current shortcomings to do the same.

Jin, we'd all appreciate if you'd be so kind as to provide your opinion on the numerous suggestions on this thread =)

I can get a little more into detail in the future about opinions and such. I do have a lot of great notes on all the suggestions from the other two threads, but I am currently juggling multiple discussions in various threads both council and public. On top of that, I am working on some monsterplay stuff as well as bug fixing and speccing for the future. My plate is very full and I apologize if I can't go into detail at this moment. But I assure you, before 13, we will have some more indepth discussions about changes. I think that Beta proved, when we all work together, we can make some pretty great fixes.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Red line: Deals pretty 'meh' damage because yellow is so strong on everything (Single and Multi-target)

-Devastating strike, needs to apply buff to champion that allows champion to bypass 40 % (?) of enemy mitigations, instead that only it (Devastating Strike) bypasses enemy mitigations.

-Every critical strike with Strike skill should grant champion stack of remorless buff (I don't remember the name, I am at work)

-Red line could also use swift blade without using 1005 trait points (aka lower the tier on swift blade trait).

This should be a start for red line.


Yellow line: It's too good when compared to red line as it stands currently.

-Instead of nerfing yellow line to the ground, buff red line(s) single target damage so much that we can choose will we play single target spec or AoE spec.


Blue line: I have not personally played it yet so I am writing these changes based on other user's opnions.

-We need hedge back, because we cannot do any threat while we are disarmed, and there is more usage to wound pots instead if removing disarm with them.

-AoE is also blue line's problem

These are all good suggestions. One I wanted to call out in particular was Remorseless Strike's buff. This is something I really would like to do and will help with some missing dps.

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Can anyone explain the thought process behind removing a skill like Hedge without replacing it with something equally effective or better (CBR is inferior)? I mean, the tree system forces you to divide up skills Champions have used for a long time (with joy) to where you can no longer have access to them at one time. So basically, you took a battle monster equipped with the skills to do high ST DPS, massive AOE's, and have high survivability (even outside Glory), and determined we would no longer have the ability to use these skills depending on our selected traits. We all realized it was probably too good to last, but what followed was very surprising.

Pre-HD I was under the impression that we would be able to use our trees in a hybrid fashion that would allow us to branch into other trees receiving some of the skills/bonuses. What we find is that points are used 2 (or 3) times as fast in other lines, and we are overloaded with tiny buffs that add no flavor to the game at all. Honestly, I would kill for at least one bubble effect on my red line, instead I am granted weak Fight On and Bracing Attack. Even buffing these with LI's doesn't help enough. So I'm not crazy. I don't expect LOTRO to revamp the tree (though it would be nice), I would just like someone to acknowledge that we have been massively nerfed just because of the tree system, meaning there is no need to take away other valuable skills just for the heck of it.

And also let's be clear that what this also did, was make what was already considered to be a "dumbed down" class even dumber. I don't have to worry about a a skill rotation anymore since I only have skills that are "necessary" for my line. Gameplay, IMO, has suffered as mastery of what was a cornucopia of skills, is now a bare bones strategy that keeps it way too simple.

I just read my post above and it may have came across a bit more aggressive than I wanted it to, but I just needed to vent a bit. My ultimate outlook an all this is that I will just have to adjust and move on. But I would like to be able to say that playing a Champ is just not as fun as it used to be, which I think is ultimately a bad thing.

Vent away my friend! I agree with a lot of your assessment

-Jinjaah

[Malganis_Lefay]

Here my impressions to the 3 Trees: (I hope my English isn´t that worse)

Deadly storm:
actuell the best line we have, the combat is fluid, the damage output ok (most time in the aggro chain i am the second one after the tank, so it seems... fine for me)
howerever, they are two "design choices" that are hard to understand for me (more below), and the lack of survivalbility in this tree that are a littlebit annoying.

Berserker line:
i have not that much experience with this, just because of its biggest flaw, you deal more or less equal damage on a single target as you do with yellow on... everyone around you which makes this line obsolote in most of the content, with the exception of fights where aoe is bad like... like ... ähm ... library.
after testing it a littlebit there is another problem with red, the bigger strike have all a very annoying delay after the animation which breaks really the flow of combat.
And when my champ does auto attacks after strikes until he use the next strike, when i know that he has serius problems.

Martial champion:
our tankline is … i would call it ambivalent. There are things i like and things which seems not good at all.
I actuell like that we have now more controll over our aggro instead of the old way, which relayed only on glorios exchange. Also i like that we need a little power management for our survivalbility -> dire need

however i dont like our force taunts, both have a far to long cooldown. In contrary to other tanks most of our aggro is generated through damage thanks to 300% more aggro, but not all enemys can be tanked like this, good example are the two bosses of Elendil with all the absorpion and damage reduction. Our challenge should have a 15sec cd like the counterparts of other classes, and true heroics cd need to be adjustet to 1-2 min at max.
also i dont like that our survivalbility is stat-wise far beyond other tanks, we cant block, we have a smaller moral pool, and we have nothing that compensate this at all. (And it is more less possible to block with 1 or 2 one-hand-swords)
And what i realy dont like is „Unbreakable“. I guess it should close the hp gap between Champs and tanks but in the way it now works, its just... useless. Up to 20% max moral sounds good but the first problem is that its empty moral and second its just temporary, so if someone heals this pool and its expires it was nothing else when overhealed. The tactical mit. is nice but as tank you should (nearly) reach the cap.

Thats my impressions of the 3 skilltree


now some other things that are „meh“ to me:

some traits/boni feel for me a littlebit misplaced or hard to understand why they are there

Exchange of blows: why is this here and not in the blue line? as DD you are not suposed to get aggro, and if you get it, you dont want to salt the wound of your enemy so that the tank has even more problems to get the aggro back, only thing where it could be funny are the moors but as a bonus it should be useful in every situation

Born for Combat: same here, you are not supposed to get hit at all, so this belongs to the blue tree, or better said it is already in the blue tree, because it works exactly like the shockwave of unbreakable
an additional note, the shockwave of born for combat is not just a weak attack, it is the weakest aoe-attack we have (ok unbreakable is weaker, but its in the end the same move)

Ebbing ire: (hope this is the right one, dont know every english name of the skill) why is an aoe de-aggro skill in the single target tree? especial if it is fairly easy for near every tank to hold aggro of a single target with force taunts

common skills that are in the trees:
"Second wind" and "Battle frenzy": with the changes to our stances we lost the two common skills of them, the power reg. and the passive favour reg. to skill this to skills is not a matter of choice, its a must have

the Fervour-pip-bonis
combining the special stance bonus with the fervour pips seem just wierd for me. Its not like the old runekeeper attunments, where you supposed to be on max attunment, you want to build and cash it out so fast and effective you can, which seems realy bad for the potence of this bonis


Solutions/wishes:

i would first shift some of the skills
-> second wind should become a treeless skill
-> sudden defence should take second wind position (which would make many many champs happy i guess)
-> exchange of blows should take the place of sudden defence
-> ebbing ire should take the place of exchange of blows
-> and ebbing ire could be replaced with seeking blade's

-Born for Combat need somekind of redesign (and a serious damage upgrade)
it should proc if you hit your enemy and maybe do something exiting as alternative to pure damage... like reset some cds or like this
-Unbreakable need a redesign,
my thoughts would be that it is either permanent activ
or work similar to Warg bubbles, a 800-1200 bubble which renew itself after 8-10 sec or like this and is affected by the explosion upgrade of sudden defence -> good for defence and aggro
-the actuell fervor-pip bonuses should give a static bonus
-Vitality Trait in blue should give either evade or aditional moral 5-10% at max
-(a little wish to the end) bladewall trait at max should give the 1-pip-per-crit-bonus of the old BG and Hytbold-armor similar to the critbuff of the wild attack trait

were are other things that people have pointed out very well so i think that i dont need to repeat post and end my own here.
If you read this far, thank you for you patience

[Blastoyz]

I can get a little more into detail in the future about opinions and such. I do have a lot of great notes on all the suggestions from the other two threads, but I am currently juggling multiple discussions in various threads both council and public. On top of that, I am working on some monsterplay stuff as well as bug fixing and speccing for the future. My plate is very full and I apologize if I can't go into detail at this moment. But I assure you, before 13, we will have some more indepth discussions about changes. I think that Beta proved, when we all work together, we can make some pretty great fixes.

-Jinjaah

Indeed you do have a lot of things tasked to you but from your return you are doing great so thankyou, and if everything goes to plan I think by update 13 LotRO may be quite balanced and a lot of fun, I can't wait.

[Giliodor]

I thank you greatly for all your replies, Jinjaah, it clearly shows some dedication. That gives hope for the future.

[LunisequiouS]

Indeed you do have a lot of things tasked to you but from your return you are doing great so thankyou, and if everything goes to plan I think by update 13 LotRO may be quite balanced and a lot of fun, I can't wait.

Same, a bit bummed that my list didn't get any replies, but the future is looking promising and that is very good indeed! Thanks for communicating with us Jinjaah!

Incidentally, what's the ETA for Update 13? I think I've read somewhere that Update 12.2 should hit the end of this month, but that should include only minor fixes, and the big balancing changes and hopefully revitalization of our class will be left for Update 13. How long do you think that will take, just to give us an estimate?

[unip0pcorn]

Thank you for taking your time reading all that stuff and responding every single one of them in this thread, Jinjaah. You cannot imagine how much of a relieve it is for most if not all of us. Let us celebrate for seeking blade's and hedge's arrival back to us, shall we!? (Do not be hasty it won't happen tomorrow right away :P)

I do hope this thread becomes your source of information concerning champions and we can keep this thing going in peace

[Draithenz1971]

Please for the love of Gandalf do not nerf yellow line to make red line feel better!!!! Just give red love

Also, true heroics is scant used since its on a 5 min cd with 12 sec duration. Please lower the cooldown.

I agree, Though I use every skill as I am able and feel best helps lmao.^^^^^^

[Jinjaah]

Same, a bit bummed that my list didn't get any replies, but the future is looking promising and that is very good indeed! Thanks for communicating with us Jinjaah!

Incidentally, what's the ETA for Update 13? I think I've read somewhere that Update 12.2 should hit the end of this month, but that should include only minor fixes, and the big balancing changes and hopefully revitalization of our class will be left for Update 13. How long do you think that will take, just to give us an estimate?

Sorry about the lack of replies. I promise in the near future I can go into more detail with you and I want to, I just have a lot of my plate this week.

I can't really give an estimate on that at this time as that's more of the producer world of things. I prefer to just keep my head down and slamming work in until someone yells "TIME!"

-Jinjaah

[Jinjaah]

Thank you for taking your time reading all that stuff and responding every single one of them in this thread, Jinjaah. You cannot imagine how much of a relieve it is for most if not all of us. Let us celebrate for seeking blade's and hedge's arrival back to us, shall we!? (Do not be hasty it won't happen tomorrow right away :P)

I do hope this thread becomes your source of information concerning champions and we can keep this thing going in peace

No worries. I would say that I think seeking Blade will remain away but there is a plan to fill that void. We can talk about it later when we have some more time to discuss all these things. Hedge on the other hand, really needs to come back to you in some form.

-Jinjaah

[Gromit1710]

Agreed, the idea was that the offensive side of you would be the downfall to the lack of defensiveness. Some things changed in Beta that negated this which is really sad to see. Red line champ was my first ever character and the state it is currently in is very much a let down to me.

-Jinjaah

Thanks for this Jinjaah. At least I know that someone does really care who has some power to change it. My champ was my first toon and is still what I spend 95% of my game time on, usually in the moors these days.

It's been a rough adjustment for some of us, especially when the whole server knows that champs seem to be the most broken class right now.

[Z0rlack]

Thanks for the replies Jinjaah!