LotRO not working on new dungeons, has no plans to merge servers from massively.joystiq.com

[Whatevaplz]

Yep, that's the same graph. Dip in similar timeframe - Oct - Jan. Not as extreme, but the numbers are back up to where they were before.

Time frame of ROR Oct 15 2012 - November 19 2012 dip 36 days with the steady rise afterwards compare to HD Nov 18 2013 - December 2 2013 14 days. Guess the expectancy of this expansion is to go up like ROR did?

You were looking at the average numbers... I see.

[Martigan]

just stop being so negative and hateful I love the game

Welcome to the game and to the forums. Every opinion counts and along with everyone else you re entitled to yours.

Although there has always been griping on the forums and at times a flow of outrage on a particular issue, there has also always been advice on quests & systems, class guides, useful feedback etc. In fact I have learnt a lot from the forums over the years.

Perhaps a question to ask is why is there less constructive posting and more complaining?

It is really good that you have recently started playing LOTRO with your wife and that you are both having a fab time. I have also really had a wonderful time in LOTRO in the 6 years that I have been playing. It was my first MMO and has been my main every since. Of the 40 or so people in my kin I am the only one who bothers too post in the forums. We have gone from having up to two pages of people logged on at night to be lucky to have even 5. This got worse over the summer, peaked with the release of HD and then fell off again within about 6 weeks. IMO this is unprecedented.

AS a kin leader I talk with my kinmates and friends in other kins and we discuss the game. Like you we all started the game at some point, we played, progressed, had fun, made friends and built alliances. We learnt that collaboration and developing a team spirit was essential to complete the most complex, challenging an for some most enjoyable content the game had to offer. I am guessing that your journey in LOTRO hasn't reached that point yet.

LOTRO Middle Earth is vast. There is a lot too explore, many of us have enjoyed doing that and still do. There is a caveat in there though. All of a sudden the penny has dropped for a lot of people. No more endgame as we have known it. I also have to say that in my honest and genuine opinion Turbine have not communicated this fundamental change in the direction of the game as well as they could have. There is still minimal clarification apart from non-time specific generalisations. It doesn't matter if they say they have communicated, if the message has not got through until now then that previous communication failed.

In your post you mention venom and hatred
Instead of venom I would say passion.
Instead of hate I would say love for the game and its future.

After all I think you will see that beneath all the complaining the majority of those people express that they and their friends would still play the game happily and merrily if there were raids and instances. Most have actually accepted the new class changes and are eagerly awaiting the fixes. however many are also scratching their heads because there is nowhere for us to try out these new skills in a meaningful way. Unless your model of the game is the new model of the game. You run the content to 95 and then either leave or start again with another character.

In one thing I agree with you, yes it probably is now about time for many of us to move on.

[Martigan]

All I can say is that the new players are obvious via steam and the starting areas I have visited on brandy wine alone.

A portion of these people will undoubtedly be old players, you have no way to know who is new and who is old.

[Danchir]

You call my perspective naive, I call yours cynical. Stalemate.

Now, I'm not sure where that came from... If you are into stalemates, there is one: 'They listen' is a valid argument as far as login drops are concerned - they sure 'listen' in that moment alright. That's what is to be 'heard', not the complaints preceding them, vocal or not. People are complaining all the time anyway - when ROR released with MC and lag, when the Erebor IC was introduced, when this or that update breaks something, etc., and it peaked during HD beta and post release (somehow enhanced by the class revamp itself, regardless if it's WAI or buggy). Let's be honest here, that's a year of 'listening' which resulted in the accumulation of a ton of 'stuff left to be fixed later', further sharpened by introduction of new game mechanics. Things were announced as fixed while they weren't, etc. It is clear that this side of the game was neglected and some temporary solutions were rushed but to no good effect. Now that it gets more and more impossible to postpone the solving of these issues, finally 'they listen'. Of course, but it's not the kind of 'listening' you mean. Good enough stalemate?
That's what I'm saying, call it anything you like.

I'm not predicting anything. I am looking at what has been planned by Turbine. And yes, if they fail me again like they failed me with housing updates, they will not be let off the hook.

Glad to hear that, I'm looking forward to see what happens with the plans as well.
The main difference between you and the posters opposing you is that for them this threshold is already reached, nothing else. They love the game just as much as you do.

[bobbylobs]

Actually it does show a similar dip. In fact, current Steam login numbers are at almost an all-time high.

All time high, where did you pull that one from?

current login figures are at 1280 average

April 2013 1,281.1
March 2013 1,364.5
February 2013 1,496.7
January 2013 1,903.7
December 2012 1,530.2
November 2012 1,044.7
October 2012 1,135.3
September 2012 1,167.0
August 2012 1,435.4

in fact right now the game has 32% less players on steam than the exact same time last year, so when you say "In fact, current Steam login numbers are at almost an all-time high", its just utter rubbish.

And furthermore that 1280 players is a average taken over the last 30 days, which as I am sure you can work out is still taking into account the peak over christmas, when january ends that 1280 will be much much lower, so in fact that 32% drop will be closer to 50% heres why:-

That 30 day average is still using Dec 18th 2013 to calculate its average on dec 18th the daily average was 1314 people, now tomorrow that figure will drop off the calculation and will be replaced with todays figure, now we dont know todays average yet but lets use yesterdays as an example that was 1019 people a drop of 22.4 %, and that is going to happen tomorrow and the day after that and the day after that.......for at least 20 days.So when January is done and the average figures are posted for january 2014, lets come back on here and compare jan 2013 - jan 2014 and see what they look like shall we?

i am all for using statistics and graphs to back up arguments but at least look at what they say before making nonsensical,clearly false statements.

Oh and by the way just to show you exactly how the current log in figures compare to previous expansion take a look at this chart http://wavehh.dyndns.org/lo/yearsall.html

That runs from oct -oct from left to right, the blue/red line at the bottom is from oct 2013-current day i.e the HD expansion, the purple/blue line is oct 2012-oct 2013 ie from RoR to HD. See the difference?do you see how Hds xmas peak compares to RoR? do you see how many logins HD has compared to RoR? do you see what happens every year from January onwards? Do you see that drop off at the end of the HD line, the one that shows logins are already back to the level they were before HD was released and also how its probably going to go below 100 logins/min before March for the first time ever?

RoR started @ - 175, xmas it went to - 260 (a 48% increase) - by the following Oct 2013 - 120 ( a drop of 53%)
HD started @ - 120, xmas it went to - 160 (a 33% increase) - by the following Oct 2014 - ? (but if its a 53% drop again like last year it will be at 75 logins/min.

Thats how HD is performing at the minute, and its not at all like an " almost an all-time high"

[BangoTwinkletoes]

You have obviously never played WoW or read their forums - everyone here, and I mean everyone, is the soul of decency and civility compared to there.

Zorraine, Can you please not slag off ALL WoW players like you are above. Two points specifically:

1. The serious game discussions regarding WoW take place on third party forums - such as http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/, http://forums.elitistjerks.com/ etc. In fact I suggest that you make a visit to these sites and read some of the very intelligent discussions that take place there. There is more in-depth theory crafting on classes, raids etc than you can shake a stick at. I'll agree with you that the official Blizzard WoW forums are mainly full of juvinile attitudes and sentiments, but that's because the sensible elements of the community are elsewhere.

2. Not every WoW player is a jumped up mid teens leet-speaking PWNZUNOOBZ pvp'er. In fact you might want to come to Moonglade and check out the guild I am there, the Wyld Hunt. These guys are on a par with Laurelin's best in terms of maturity and camaraderie.

Now I'm not saying that WoW is perfect, far from it. I've done my fair share if /ignore on people who have peeved me with their inability to behave like a normal human being. But that's computer games for you. I'll go so far that every MMO have their own issues with their player base - lotro included. Because WoW is so much bigger and more famous it seems to attract attention.

Anyhow, more than happy to have discussion elsewhere about the issues affecting the WoW community but don't throw out generalised statements like the above that are just based on ignorance.

Thank you.

Back to the thread

[Smehcoons]

Meh, the game is dead. Less than 80 people in GLFF (this was around 300 around HD release, and as ~150 mark before HD)

No one wants to join groups.

Kins are disbanding, and organised raids are being run less and less.

With nothing planned to fix all the issues, people aren't even logging on anymore.

[mjk47]

Meh, the game is dead. Less than 80 people in GLFF (this was around 300 around HD release, and as ~150 mark before HD)

No one wants to join groups.

Kins are disbanding, and organised raids are being run less and less.

With nothing planned to fix all the issues, people aren't even logging on anymore.

There is a common link to all of your points. The people who are in kins that run organised raids are also those who are likely to want to join groups and thus are likely to be in GLFF.

Those that don't want to run organised raids probably don't want to join groups, and probably wouldn't touch GLFF with a 10 foot halberd.

As a consequence, those in the second category are likely to be invisible to those in the first category.

[CaerArianrhod]

You may want to pay closer attention to what's been announced and what is being planned. Honestly, I don't know why people keep claiming there will be no new content this year. It's been made clear that there will.

It't been made clear, that nothing has been said clearly.
http://www.containsmoderateperil.com...ngard-gilrain/

No new traditional instances and raids are being planned at this time.

A revamped SoA region is a possibility to include in one of the updates in 2014, although no region has been picked yet.

versus:

“Take a break from expansions”
We’ve heard a lot of you suggest we take a break from the annual expansion cycle, and we agree! We’d like to take the time to revisit some older systems, add more region content, and just generally have more Middle-earth to explore throughout the year.

In 2014 we’re going to focus on a steady flow of content throughout the year. We’re planning on adding new content on a quarterly basis in 2014.

OK. No news Raid no Traditional instances. Fine for me, if the actual content getting debugged and we have something that at least looks like a class balance.
But, if there is no region has been choosed for revamp, what kind of "steady flow of content" we will get "on a quarterly basis in 2014"? Do you know that? If the answere is clear for you, please share it with us others.

If any discussions about housing happened in 2013, it seems like they’re starting over completely in 2014 in deciding what’s desirable and what’s possible.

versus:

Housing
As I said earlier, Housing is still high on our list of objectives for the year, and the conversation thread can be found here. We’ll be talking more about this throughout the year.

That is quite clear. Turbine dindt' do anything for husing yet and will start the discusson again. That is the only thing we can expect for 2014.

[mjk47]

It't been made clear, that nothing has been said clearly.
http://www.containsmoderateperil.com...ngard-gilrain/



versus:



OK. No news Raid no Traditional instances. Fine for me, if the actual content getting debugged and we have something that at least looks like a class balance.
But, if there is no region has been choosed for revamp, what kind of "steady flow of content" we will get "on a quarterly basis in 2014"? Do you know that? If the answere is clear for you, please share it with us others.


versus:


That is quite clear. Turbine dindt' do anything for husing yet and will start the discusson again. That is the only thing we can expect for 2014.

You seem to have missed this bit.

More Content, More Often – Free for VIP.
In the past we’ve focused on yearly expansion packs that brought big changes and lots of new content at the end of the year coupled with smaller updates throughout the year and a new region in the spring. In 2014 we’re going to focus on a steady flow of content throughout the year. We’re planning on adding new content on a quarterly basis in 2014. Players have expressed a desire to explore a bit deeper into Fangorn Forest and to see Isengard flooded in the battle with the Ents. Both of these are slated for our first quarterly update in March.
Later in the year we’ll be seeing more iconic locales and moments from the lore including the Paths of the Dead and the Dead Marshes. We will also take our first steps in Gondor!
If you’re a VIP, these regions and content will all be free with your subscription.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Ahead-to-2014

[CaerArianrhod]

Because players aren't lawyers which makes them confused about the issues, further players are listening to sensationalist MMO news sites which hyped this boring issue by asking "is lotro shutting down in 2014".

We've had a license agreement all along with options to extend it. That means it is pretty much automatically extended as soon as it is asked for (and the fee is paid). So then the non-lawyer players ask "why not extend now for all the remaining years?" in which case notice that part about paying the fees. Companies don't like to spend money significantly earlier than they have to.

Players don't has to be lawyers (albeit i know one, who' playing the game). And if you say "We've had a license agreement", who is "we"? I don't have any license agreement with ME Enterprises. Do you?
"means it is pretty much automatically extended" an option means in first place nothing if we don't know what this option is for. It means only, you can ask for something and have to negotiate with the issuer of the licence. Fine. Turbine did do that. Now we know that, but not more. We still don't know, if the new licence includes the same constraint as the old one, so that Turbine can develop the game in the same manner as up to now. Players who like the game and like to play is, would like to know if they can still expect an evolving game. That's all what players asking for.

It is (not really) very funny to see, how Turbine treat his players. Turbin acting always if every player would be a 12 years old child, not knowing everything. Regardless if the matter is a technical one or something else. You can expresse the meaning of Turbines answer in one sentence: "is is to complicated to explain it". Well ... Maybe should WE use simple (basic) english, so that Turbine is able to understand our questions!

[CaerArianrhod]

You seem to have missed this bit.

Please read my post and do not mix my quotes!

Regards
CA

[mjk47]

Players don't has to be lawyers (albeit i know one, who' playing the game). And if you say "We've had a license agreement", who is "we"? I don't have any license agreement with ME Enterprises. Do you?

Now you are just being deliberately obtuse.

"means it is pretty much automatically extended" an option means in first place nothing if we don't know what this option is for. It means only, you can ask for something and have to negotiate with the issuer of the licence.

You statement is inaccurate. An option on a license can be anything. It is just as likely to be worded that the Licensee has the option to extend the license for a pre-defined period for a pre-agreed, fixed fee with no negotiation required. Without a sight of the contract, no dogmatic statements can be made.

[QUOTE=CaerArianrhod;7076951]Fine. Turbine did do that. Now we know that, but not more. We still don't know, if the new licence includes the same constraint as the old one, so that Turbine can develop the game in the same manner as up to now. Players who like the game and like to play is, would like to know if they can still expect an evolving game. That's all what players asking for.[/QUOTE

It is unlikely that exercising an option involves creating a new license. IANAL, but I deal with IP Licenses as part of my work, and I do have some small understanding of such matters, and what is normally contained in such licenses.

It is very rare for companies to comment directly on the contents of licenses and contracts as this is condsidered commercially sensitive information, and in many cases confidentiality clauses in the license specifically preclude disclosure of the terms.

It is (not really) very funny to see, how Turbine treat his players. Turbin acting always if every player would be a 12 years old child, not knowing everything. Regardless if the matter is a technical one or something else. You can expresse the meaning of Turbines answer in one sentence: "is is to complicated to explain it". Well ... Maybe should WE use simple (basic) english, so that Turbine is able to understand our questions!

If people are going to wilfully interpret what is said according to their own prejudices, then the same words can mean completely different things to different people. As a community we are all guilty of running Turbine's pronouncements through our own perceptual filters, and it seems we draw just as many different conclusions as there are players.

[mjk47]

Please read my post and do not mix my quotes!

Regards
CA

I did read your post.

You specifically asked what kind of "steady flow of content" we will get "on a quarterly basis in 2014"?

I merely quoted an example of content promised for the March update, and additional content also promised for 2014.

How is that not relevent in answering your question?

Of course,only time wioll tell if what is promised is actually delivered. We will find out the first results in a couple of months.

[Bragard]

guys the game of forum licence pong finished last week.

[mjk47]

guys the game of forum licence pong finished last week.

You would have thought so,wouldn't you. Apparently the glass half-empty folks wish to keep up the flow of negative interpretation.

Edit: Edited to correct brain fade.

[frickinmuck]

Now, I'm not sure where that came from... If you are into stalemates, there is one: 'They listen' is a valid argument as far as login drops are concerned - they sure 'listen' in that moment alright. That's what is to be 'heard', not the complaints preceding them, vocal or not. People are complaining all the time anyway - when ROR released with MC and lag, when the Erebor IC was introduced, when this or that update breaks something, etc., and it peaked during HD beta and post release (somehow enhanced by the class revamp itself, regardless if it's WAI or buggy). Let's be honest here, that's a year of 'listening' which resulted in the accumulation of a ton of 'stuff left to be fixed later', further sharpened by introduction of new game mechanics. Things were announced as fixed while they weren't, etc. It is clear that this side of the game was neglected and some temporary solutions were rushed but to no good effect. Now that it gets more and more impossible to postpone the solving of these issues, finally 'they listen'. Of course, but it's not the kind of 'listening' you mean. Good enough stalemate?
That's what I'm saying, call it anything you like.

I didn't claim that they were listening before now. If they had been really listening, it's possible that none of this polarization and anger over bugs and content would have happened.

The main difference between you and the posters opposing you is that for them this threshold is already reached, nothing else. They love the game just as much as you do.

I don't know that we have enough information to gauge people's relative 'love' of the game, nor do I think it's productive to try do do so. Regardless of how we all feel about the game, I think the bigger difference isn't in thresholds, it's in what we believe is the best thing we can do for the game we love. They clearly feel the best thing they can do is rip it and Turbine to shreds in the forums and on various websites, predicting the imminent demise of the game - not sure what they think that will accomplish, but whatever floats your boat. I think the best thing I can do is try to stay positive and make the most out of what we have, and constructively advocate for the types of changes that I feel will make a difference. I think each person has every right to handle things in whatever way they choose. I should add that the forums have always been polarized in this exact same way - since as far back as when SoA was launched. Nothing has really changed too dramatically in that regard.

All time high, where did you pull that one from?

The recent peak in December was nearly an all-time high. That's where I "pulled" that one from. Yeah the averages are down, but it's the same everywhere. Every game I play it's down. We have absolutely no way to truly know why, and anyone who claims to be able to do so with anything other than guesswork is being dishonest.

Statistics are a joke anyway, because none of us have any access to comprehensive, reliable statistics regarding game usage. The only ones who do are Turbine, and I'm sure they are crunching the numbers to best determine what they feel the course of the game should be. Therefore it's really pointless wankery for us to take what little information we have and speculate and extrapolate and act like we have any actual clue what's really going on.

The better measure we should be focusing on is - are you having fun? Do you enjoy the game and do you want to play it? That is the one thing you can be certain of a factual answer on. And then you can use that factual information to decide whether you want to continue playing, or whether you need a break.

Any other supposed 'facts' are at best a really poor partial picture that will distort more than it will illuminate.

As a consequence, those in the second category are likely to be invisible to those in the first category.

Yeah, I have to laugh at GLFF being used as a measure of anything. I mean, GLFF is one of the most loathed and avoided areas of the game for most players, old and new. Even regular GLFF users will often leave the channel for stretches of time to take a break.

You would have thought so,wouldn't you. Apparently the glass half-full folks wish to keep up the flow of negative interpretation.

Sadly I don't think that's something that's likely to end any time soon.

[Bel-Astarte]

Are you certain you're on the right forum?

Yep, s/he is.

[Minquinn]

Zorraine, Can you please not slag off ALL WoW players like you are above. Two points specifically:

1. The serious game discussions regarding WoW take place on third party forums - such as http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/, http://forums.elitistjerks.com/ etc. In fact I suggest that you make a visit to these sites and read some of the very intelligent discussions that take place there. There is more in-depth theory crafting on classes, raids etc than you can shake a stick at. I'll agree with you that the official Blizzard WoW forums are mainly full of juvinile attitudes and sentiments, but that's because the sensible elements of the community are elsewhere.

2. Not every WoW player is a jumped up mid teens leet-speaking PWNZUNOOBZ pvp'er. In fact you might want to come to Moonglade and check out the guild I am there, the Wyld Hunt. These guys are on a par with Laurelin's best in terms of maturity and camaraderie.

Now I'm not saying that WoW is perfect, far from it. I've done my fair share if /ignore on people who have peeved me with their inability to behave like a normal human being. But that's computer games for you. I'll go so far that every MMO have their own issues with their player base - lotro included. Because WoW is so much bigger and more famous it seems to attract attention.

Anyhow, more than happy to have discussion elsewhere about the issues affecting the WoW community but don't throw out generalised statements like the above that are just based on ignorance.

Thank you.

Back to the thread

I'll back you on this one. Serious WOW players used third party forum sites. The WOW forum was a total joke from about WOTLK on. As a tank I used tankspot. Most of my hardmode guild did as well or used elitestjerks. Although when we did use the official board we were looked up to, admired rather than scolded by players who did not like running hardmode group content.

And this whole solo vs. raider thing is a very new phenomenon it (over the last year or so). And these attitudes are generally fueled by posters who either believe that they are moderators or in fact working for turbine. And those who are selfish about developed content, or those individuals who have been so let down by development that they feel the need to lash back in order to preserve some of the content they enjoyed.

While there was an in game element that was detrimental to the WOW community. A little thing called gearscore. Players used it to exclude people from groups. Many times the player was asked to have better gear than the instance even dropped. This was mostly reserved to pugging scrubs.

[Lohi]

Meh, the game is dead.

I'm in a group right now (waiting on someone), and ~300 in glff at times. It's a larger server though.

[bobbylobs]

post to remove front page of spam

[Danchir]

post to remove front page of spam

It seems the current ones are about a 'love mantra' or something. What brings love, how to get love, etc.
They should have posted them in 'Instances, Raids, and Skirmishes'...

[Anavalar]

Yeah, I have to laugh at GLFF being used as a measure of anything. I mean, GLFF is one of the most loathed and avoided areas of the game for most players, old and new. Even regular GLFF users will often leave the channel for stretches of time to take a break.

On Landroval GLFF is really the only (non-kin) channel that enjoys significant use. PUGs, LTB, LTS, advice, lore discussion, etc, ... all the actual action takes place on GLFF. Trolling and tasteless humor happen periodically but less so than in any other well trafficked MMO public chat that I've ever been witness too.

[frickinmuck]

On Landroval GLFF is really the only (non-kin) channel that enjoys significant use. PUGs, LTB, LTS, advice, lore discussion, etc, ... all the actual action takes place on GLFF. Trolling and tasteless humor happen periodically but less so than in any other well trafficked MMO public chat that I've ever been witness too.

Indeed. Landroval has the best GLFF of any server I've frequented. People in general tend to be really helpful, collaborative and friendly there, and problems are rare compared with other servers. But that doesn't change the fact that GLFF is still largely hated and avoided in LotRO, even on Landroval.

I was pleased to learn that Turbine has not abandoned plans for an official global chat channel. Such channels are necessary to build and maintain a sense of activity and community in any MMO.

[Dworin]

Indeed. Landroval has the best GLFF of any server I've frequented. People in general tend to be really helpful, collaborative and friendly there, and problems are rare compared with other servers. But that doesn't change the fact that GLFF is still largely hated and avoided in LotRO, even on Landroval.

I was pleased to learn that Turbine has not abandoned plans for an official global chat channel. Such channels are necessary to build and maintain a sense of activity and community in any MMO.

I am on Landroval and I avoid GLFF like the plague. Depending on the way it is implemented, the same is likely for an official global chat channel.