Bullroarer Update 19 - Preview 3 and Phial collection question

[Oelle]

Also can't get behind a corruption boost for mits (other stuff fair enough), since stacking 6 mits of a particular type on some creep classes makes incoming damage drop to ridiculous levels. As it is, the difference between traiting mits and not traiting mits is phenominal on creepside, making this "gap" a chasm is not a great idea imho.

The difference between using mitigation essences as freep and not using mitigation essences does the same.
last time i looked, corruptions were still at lvl95 values. there is no good reason for this.

and offensive corruptions should yield even more mastery, otherwise playing as tanky as freeps in t2-instances is a no-brainer.

[kickman77]

I've begun collecting the basic info on the WIKI: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:North_Ithilien_Flora

Thanks for the link. the armor looks like it is not worth the grind, especially for medium armor classes. I may want to get a cosmetic or 2 depending on how it looks, but, looks like I can avoid collecting on all my capped alts.

[DanteIL]

Yes -- thanks a lot for that link and for putting that information together! So I'm not too excited about this -- I find the idea of more essence gear off-putting, plus as a burglar for my main, I'm not sure about the usefulness of that medium armor. I guess I will see how grindy the flower-picking turns out to be.

Thanks for the link. the armor looks like it is not worth the grind, especially for medium armor classes. I may want to get a cosmetic or 2 depending on how it looks, but, looks like I can avoid collecting on all my capped alts.

[Thundertrain]

Two thoughts on this topic:

1.) Why have the flower gathering system be so complex? I'm fine with the extracts varying in color, and requiring different quantities of certain colors required for bartering, but why not just have a single node type called "Ithilien Flower" and let the color and quantity of extracts be a random draw? 30% chance for each of Verdant, Crimson, and Umber, 5% each for Amber and Sapphire (just an example). At least then you wouldn't have players clumped in the two areas where the Drakewort and Bell-O-Dale grow, racing each other to grab them, which is EXACTLY what's going to happen when this goes live.

2.) Why, in the name of all that's holy, would the medium armor have vitality as the added stat? I get that Beornings are might-based medium armor, hunter and burglar are agility-based, and warden is both agility and might because...wardens. But why then pick a stat that adds nothing useful to any of the four classes? You didn't want to make a might-based and an agility-based medium armor, so you just made one set that sucks for all 4 classes? I guess you can make a case for a slight benefit to wardens, who get more morale per vitality point than the others, but don't wardens already have enough advantages? This is just poor effort. You've gone to the trouble to add might-based medium armor at almost every other level, why stop now?

(these points are based off the stats I'm seeing on Lotro-Wiki right now http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Cate...#Typical_Flora...if they've changed, feel free to ignore me.)

[NeebPlayer]

Two thoughts on this topic:

1.) Why have the flower gathering system be so complex? I'm fine with the extracts varying in color, and requiring different quantities of certain colors required for bartering, but why not just have a single node type called "Ithilien Flower" and let the color and quantity of extracts be a random draw? 30% chance for each of Verdant, Crimson, and Umber, 5% each for Amber and Sapphire (just an example). At least then you wouldn't have players clumped in the two areas where the Drakewort and Bell-O-Dale grow, racing each other to grab them, which is EXACTLY what's going to happen when this goes live.

2.) Why, in the name of all that's holy, would the medium armor have vitality as the added stat? I get that Beornings are might-based medium armor, hunter and burglar are agility-based, and warden is both agility and might because...wardens. But why then pick a stat that adds nothing useful to any of the four classes? You didn't want to make a might-based and an agility-based medium armor, so you just made one set that sucks for all 4 classes? I guess you can make a case for a slight benefit to wardens, who get more morale per vitality point than the others, but don't wardens already have enough advantages? This is just poor effort. You've gone to the trouble to add might-based medium armor at almost every other level, why stop now?

(these points are based off the stats I'm seeing on Lotro-Wiki right now http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Cate...#Typical_Flora...if they've changed, feel free to ignore me.)

But the armor is trash, so why do you care? I guess you could argue it is slightly better than FI gear, but you need twice the essences.
This is for solo players who don't do instances. They don't need better stats for anything.

[ElanorFb]

But the armor is trash, so why do you care? I guess you could argue it is slightly better than FI gear, but you need twice the essences.
This is for solo players who don't do instances. They don't need better stats for anything.

You know, I looked at all the different armors today: T2 raid, T1 raid, FI and 4 slot instance. I use 2 four-slots and 4 2-slots myself. I was surprised to see that this is the same as the raid T1 and basically the same as raid T2. And the flower armor is not better. It seems to me it's just giving a variety of playstyles similar gear and I think that's very good. It's also good that it makes the flowergrind optional for most and can just approach it for fun from time to time and maybe for cosmetics.

[JCAG]

You know, I looked at all the different armors today: T2 raid, T1 raid, FI and 4 slot instance. I use 2 four-slots and 4 2-slots myself. I was surprised to see that this is the same as the raid T1 and basically the same as raid T2. And the flower armor is not better. It seems to me it's just giving a variety of playstyles similar gear and I think that's very good. It's also good that it makes the flowergrind optional for most and can just approach it for fun from time to time and maybe for cosmetics.

I have to agree with you Elanor,

While I'm not ecstatic about the armour's of today being pure essence builds, I have to admit that I am won over by the availability of options for players with similar classes, but different play styles. This gives those who may not necessarily have the capability and/or time to do T2 raid/instances to get decent enough gear. And for those who do want to work extra hard for the T2 gear (like me), I appreciate that it is not so easily obtainable; thus creating a certain barrier of entry, allowing those who worked hard enough to reap the rewards. This does not mean those who don't want to work hard can't get the gear, but if they want it to be easy, they would have to wait till some time has passed for it to be more easily obtainable.

They essentially catered to both needs: those who want to simply grind, but not face difficult content vs. those who really do want difficult content, without the ridiculous grinding of hundreds of flowers. And for those who want something in between...well that's why we got featured instances!

Also, as far as the difference between the featured instance gear vs. the t1/t2 raid gear goes, the main difference in my opinion is that the raid gear has overall better set bonuses, and bonuses catered towards more "survival". While this survival aspect (and I include the corruption removal bonus as apart of survival) may not seem really necessary outside of the new raid, we have to keep in mind that historically, raid gear has been a precedent for not just the actual raid you get it from, but for content that is about to come ahead. So while certain set bonuses may not seem very useful now, they hopefully will be a lot more handy when we get into newer content going forward.

Now, if we can just have those LM skill/trait bugs fixed...we would be set!

[Ethrildar]

40-45/50% I think would be reasonable. What exactly do you mean by ranked buffs?

This is a difficulty I ran into. I think we could overcome it by simply reducing 6 of each corruption to 4 or 5. There simply is no need to have the ability to stack 6 of each corruption.

Those creep buffs, Rank 9 or 10? They give something like -9% incoming damage. Combined with ON buff, and a tome of D, you're looking at a ridiculous reduction when combined with A) Some creep classes already being tanky as-is and B) Stacking 6 of a type of mit (Especially if they were to be buffed as suggested).

The difference between using mitigation essences as freep and not using mitigation essences does the same.
last time i looked, corruptions were still at lvl95 values. there is no good reason for this.

and offensive corruptions should yield even more mastery, otherwise playing as tanky as freeps in t2-instances is a no-brainer.

Yeah, not putting mits essences on Freep makes a big difference too, but at 50% mits (medium armour cap) your mits make a far lesser difference than that of say, a ranked WL/Reaver traiting for maximum mits, which will reach somewhere in the range of 80% mits. Combined with the -80% incoming damage suggested earlier and the borderline guarantee that skills so clearly broken like Wrath won't get fixed... Yeah no thanks.

Offensive corruption buffs? Yeah, definitely needed.

Having mits stacking be an option and not a necessity? Definitely needed.

Traiting 6 of a specific type of mit to ensure certain classes do basically no damage to you under ordinary circumstances? That needs to end, not get worse.

[Thundertrain]

But the armor is trash, so why do you care? I guess you could argue it is slightly better than FI gear, but you need twice the essences.
This is for solo players who don't do instances. They don't need better stats for anything.

It's obvious that I once again need to point out the fact that "you don't need better stats" argument is absurd. I am a firm believer that the best gear in the game should be rewarded for completing the hardest content in the game, usually 6-man T2C or raids. But if you can complete this content with the gear you already have, then you don't "need" better stats, either. It's about want, not need. Most players want the best gear they can get according to their preferred play style, be that solo, fellowship, raid, or RP. Since the flower armor is apparently going to be the top-end gear for solo players, it's reasonable to believe that most solo players will want it.

None of this pertains the point I was trying to make, which is that heavy armor classes get flower armor with a stat (might) that benefits their classes. Light flower armor gives a boost to will, which benefits the light armor classes. It makes no sense at all to give vitality as the stat for the medium armor, as it benefits none of the medium armor classes. They should make two sets of medium armor (one agility for warden, burg, and hunter; one might for Beorning), as they have done with every other reward / barter medium armor to this point.

[Oelle]

please make the flowers spawn randomly.
sapphire and amber extracts are clearly better than the other ones. therefore, people will just camp where those grow instead of exploring the whole landscape. which they should imo. and which they would, if all flowers had the same chance to spawn everywhere.

[Malathran]

None of this pertains the point I was trying to make, which is that heavy armor classes get flower armor with a stat (might) that benefits their classes. Light flower armor gives a boost to will, which benefits the light armor classes. It makes no sense at all to give vitality as the stat for the medium armor, as it benefits none of the medium armor classes. They should make two sets of medium armor (one agility for warden, burg, and hunter; one might for Beorning), as they have done with every other reward / barter medium armor to this point.

While your partially right with this, wardens and beorns in fact benefit just fine from vit based armour. Since both get 5x morale per vit, there isn't a significant difference between the armour being might/agi based or vit based. Especially since it has lots of essence slots all it really does is change where stats are contributed from. Someone with more knowledge of the relative value of morale vs. mastery on essences may correct me here, but i believe its close enough that the total stats would balance out just fine.

This of course does nothing for hunters/burgs. This is especially mystifying seeing as how a primary part of this update was to bring those two classes dps up to balance, but whats new really. Agi based based med armour should be added (and might as well just for true balance) but I just wanted to point out with intelligent gearing that vit based would in fact benefit half of the medium armour classes just fine.

[Oelle]

While your partially right with this, wardens and beorns in fact benefit just fine from vit based armour. Since both get 5x morale per vit, there isn't a significant difference between the armour being might/agi based or vit based. Especially since it has lots of essence slots all it really does is change where stats are contributed from. Someone with more knowledge of the relative value of morale vs. mastery on essences may correct me here, but i believe its close enough that the total stats would balance out just fine.

This of course does nothing for hunters/burgs. This is especially mystifying seeing as how a primary part of this update was to bring those two classes dps up to balance, but whats new really. Agi based based med armour should be added (and might as well just for true balance) but I just wanted to point out with intelligent gearing that vit based would in fact benefit half of the medium armour classes just fine.

while you are right in general, turbine broke vitality with HD.
before HD, for a 5-morale-per-vita-class, a slice of vitality was slightly better (+2% sum of stats*) than a combined slice of morale, mits and resistance, which vitality gave.
since HD, vitality no longer gives mits and therefore is only good for out-of-combat-morale-regeneration. in other words, its bad for everyone as a combatstat. before HD, your point would have been right. then it was better than morale IF one wanted resistance and mits, too AND IF one was a 5-morale-per-vita-class. now vitality is just bad for everyone.

*source: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...tats-and-buffs

[Daniyel]

Thank you !!!

IDK if its 2 late to get this in before Monday's morning release, but here's a suggestion:

Please allow us to keep up to 1 normal kinship house and one premium kinship house only.
Please allow for the vault-like chest systems to be linked in these house, via Feature name "Shared Housing Storage"
Ill pay a few or half-dozen mihtril coins for that for sure! and also gold: but like 50 or 100 or 200 or 250g....

IDK if its 2 late to get this in before Monday's morning release, but I will re-post this in Beta 4 comments as well.

Thank you LOTROteam~!~

[NeebPlayer]

It's obvious that I once again need to point out the fact that "you don't need better stats" argument is absurd. I am a firm believer that the best gear in the game should be rewarded for completing the hardest content in the game, usually 6-man T2C or raids. But if you can complete this content with the gear you already have, then you don't "need" better stats, either. It's about want, not need. Most players want the best gear they can get according to their preferred play style, be that solo, fellowship, raid, or RP. Since the flower armor is apparently going to be the top-end gear for solo players, it's reasonable to believe that most solo players will want it.

None of this pertains the point I was trying to make, which is that heavy armor classes get flower armor with a stat (might) that benefits their classes. Light flower armor gives a boost to will, which benefits the light armor classes. It makes no sense at all to give vitality as the stat for the medium armor, as it benefits none of the medium armor classes. They should make two sets of medium armor (one agility for warden, burg, and hunter; one might for Beorning), as they have done with every other reward / barter medium armor to this point.

I don't doubt that they will want the flower armor. And they are going to have it, since all you need to do for it is picking flowers. Both sides win.

Except maybe the flowers' side loses, but who cares! Flowers ain't got no feelings, rite? xd

Or, you can have some self-esteem and refuse to grind new gear every couple of months.

[Tarlywyn]

Flowers ain't got no feelings, rite? xd

That's debatable. Plant's exhibit a noticable reaction to wounding in the form of increased ethylene production.

#plantlivesmatter

[Daniyel]

can someone please confirm/deny if the 4-slot flower armour is basically the level 100 r-slot armour, only with a higher armour rating and more of the base stat?

[Oelle]

can someone please confirm/deny if the 4-slot flower armour is basically the level 100 r-slot armour, only with a higher armour rating and more of the base stat?

and the ability to put lvl105 essences in
but yes, in the end, thats it. plus, basestats are not mainstats but mainly morale. (and a bit of mainstats)

[Daniyel]

thank you for the clarification. how do the stats compare to the pelennor 4slot armour? raid armour?

[Ghazhagh]

Thanks for the link. the armor looks like it is not worth the grind, especially for medium armor classes. I may want to get a cosmetic or 2 depending on how it looks, but, looks like I can avoid collecting on all my capped alts.

I concur, not sure what they were thinking. Light comes with Will, Heavy comes with Might, but medium comes with Vitality? How the hell does that make sense? In order to save themselves from having two medium sets, (One might for Beornings, One with agility for Warden, Hunter, Burg) they go with Vitality instead. Can't remotely figure out how that makes sense.

[Oelle]

thank you for the clarification. how do the stats compare to the pelennor 4slot armour? raid armour?

the stats are about the same, but flowerset has no setbonus. so no +10% or 2xx mainstat for 2 pieces.

[Gandalphor]

Would be nice to hear from Cordovan if any of these suggestions were taken into any serious consideration and if something has been done with those. Or do we need to wait for the update and find out ourselves?