Bullroarer Update 23 Preview #2: Release Notes and Feedback Thread

[Macdui]

Just because everyone is saying it, doesn't mean that it will happen. I mean, everyone has been saying this game is going to die for the last 11 years and it still hasn't come to fruition. I HIGHLY doubt that they will change the functionality of Black Steel Keys before U23 goes live.

Only because it would be commercial suicide, yet even that hasn't stopped them making remarkably bad decisions before. The deal they have with the Daybreak Suit maybe another very bad deal made under duress. It would explain a lot.


Mac

[Taldeen]

First: Healing potions should always work twofold:
"Heals xxx(dependend on level) of Morale, max 20% of max Morale".

Secondly: I dislike the whole premium pots stuff. The %Morale potions can be actually gamebreaking.
It does break PvP and shifts PvE more into a pay2win direction (as you can be sure they will be in the store at some point).
It also complicates balancing, esp. when you can just use warriors heart run around and kite mobs while selfhealing yourself with the %Morale pot. Just imagine these pots at ID2 if the offtank goes kiting with the adds.
It's just a very dumb idea and will even more seperate the playerbase.
Some people will use these pots on tanks and kite mobs for days(or at specific phases) with no healing at all. They thereby circumvent certain mechanics because they have these premium pots.
Casual raiders will call these people out or feel compelled to get these pots if they wanna continue raiding (like the tome of defense, but much worse).
It will drive even more a wedge between casual raiders and hardcore raiders.
Please remove these pots entirely or make them not usable in instance/raids/PvP.

I would also encourage you to think about blocking all premium items from use in raids/PvP.

[hanxcve]

These new morale pots should not exist or atleast be unbound and common. It grants an unfair advantage to end-game pvp and pve content as it could mean the difference between getting in to a raid and being declined from a raid just because you cant heal yourself with the pots in an emergency situation. Any store buff should not be scaled, please stop misleading the SSG team Knight.Arkenstone

[Crookedmouf]

Just wanted to chime in here in support of removing loot locks for 3 mans and 6 mans.

Time-gating and long term community involvement are full achievable if you simple go to a daily-quest that gives barter tokens. These tokens would barter for the current BiS gear (until raid drops obviously). This would NOT include jewelery/cloak. Those would be rare drops from chests as they have been in the past. These rare jewelry/cloak drops would be BiS and would keep people interested in the instances even if their daily quests are on cooldown.

The BIGGEST reason I fear this won't be implemented is simply because this method doesn't use store-bought keys to provide BiS gear. But I would argue that store-keys would still sell very close to the same rate IF you simply provide close to BiS gear that allows people a convenience of skipping some of the grind. Grind like questing/dailies to get geared well enough to run 3/6 mans. Your player base is begging you to take BiS gear out of lootboxes, please listen.

[Snoopy]

Just my 2 cents. Allow the gear that drops for the loot boxes to be the best landscape gear available. Then, if need be, make the gear that drops from instances a little better then it. I don't enjoy doing dailies to grind out gear and would rather buy it and surpass the daily grind. Even if it is only available in the store I will buy it from there just so I don't have to do the daily grind to get the best landscape gear. Also a big kudos for the destroy all button on the pending loot.

[Skyfoot]

I don't enjoy doing dailies to grind out gear and would rather buy it and surpass the daily grind. Even if it is only available in the store I will buy it from there just so I don't have to do the daily grind to get the best landscape gear.

And this is why we have the game we have today...

[Snoopy]

And this is why we have the game we have today...

How would me buying my gear effect you in any way? I know how to play my class, I don't group on a regular basis, and I play at my own pace. How would buying my gear change anything?

[Arnenna]

I'm assuming that these items that are now bought for the new currency will "ash" to Embers now. Will have to transfer another char after ransacking the kin house to test myself.

I'm getting sick of the barter vendors having so much stuff to trawl through. The Traveller and Heroic boxes tooltip do not actually tell you anything of the contents, we can assume Heroic is the higher item level but there's nothing to tell your average joe. I've seen shield pics on the forums and know they can be found in the Weapon coffers but there's nothing to tell a guard or mini that they can get their shield in one, obviously they know they can't be crafted anymore for a reason that entirely escapes me.

Mac

I opened a new min level 116 box and obtained a broken statue of Sauron. I've tried burning it to see what ash comes out of it, but it says - no room. That's because I'm currently ash capped on Motes. So, old housing items in new boxes, which in itself is bad enough, but they burn into motes, which is old currency.

[Decrepify]

How would me buying my gear effect you in any way? I know how to play my class, I don't group on a regular basis, and I play at my own pace. How would buying my gear change anything?

What's your class?

[Snoopy]

What's your class?

My main is an RK.

[Skyfoot]

How would buying my gear change anything?

You're being completely disingenuous by even asking that question.

[Decrepify]

My main is an RK.

Okay, highest DPS achieved before and after they sadly got shafted? Not landscape.

[Snoopy]

You're being completely disingenuous by even asking that question.

Seriously. I would like to know.

Okay, highest DPS achieved before and after they sadly got shafted? Not landscape.

Ya. I'm looking forward to the class update. /fingers_crossed.

[Skyfoot]

Seriously. I would like to know.

You already know. And there is nothing serious about your comment.

[Arnenna]

Seriously. I would like to know.

Because when players buy their way through the game, rather than play the game for reward, the game then ends up being designed around it. Like it is today.

Ergo, if nobody had ever bought keys, then the system would have flopped and design would have gone back to the table on how to make it a great game, where people play for rewards without ridiculous grinds added - to make buying keys preferable.

Keys - a way to NOT play the game, which means, the game will become more and more play unfriendly. Nobody will buy keys if the grinds are reasonable right?
Valar - a way to Not play the game, which means, the game will become more and more play unfriendly.
Stat Tomes in store - a way to NOT get stat tomes in game, which means, less stat tomes in game.

Apply that to other items, have a think about supply and demand and seriously - you'll may get it.

[Snoopy]

You already know. And there is nothing serious about your comment.

See that's just it. When I have posted about the gear drops in loot boxes being close to BiS people have been crying about it but have yet to offer a good excuse as to why it shouldn't be there. Honestly the landscape gear is fairly easy to get. It just takes time. I would rather "buy some time" and surpass the daily grind and go do stuff I actually enjoy. A lot of us have been playing a long time and the daily grind is pretty much the same from update to update. So let me skip it. Furthermore, make the gear in instances better. That's great. The peeps who run instances probably need better gear to do the tier 2 and (soon) 3 stuff.

[Valamar]

The Mac Client still does not allow one to login to Bullroarer.

[Skyfoot]

I would rather "buy some time" and surpass the daily grind...

And who creates that grind in the first place? It's like a train in some hellish loop and you're a gleefully willing passenger.

[Knight.]

Why are we not able to craft Empowered Mithrin Essences?

I was taking a look at Heroic Gear & Purple Essences
(all of which are "introductory gear" after quest rewards in the sense that instances drop better gear and teal/gold essences will probably come later)

15 pieces of teal heroic armour @500 embers of enchantment each = 7500 embers of enchantment
16 essences @500 embers of enchantment each = 8000 embers of enchantment
Total (one toon, one armour set w/ essences): 15,500 embers of enchatment
Total (one toon, two armour set w/ essences): 31,000 embers of enchantment e.g. Capt (red line & tank spec)

Purple Gear currently gives 40-50 ash per item
Teal Gear from instances gives 70 ash per item
I'm not sure what the range on heroic loot boxes is but atm I've seen 120 / 240 / 360.
Let's also not forget that atm instances have raid locks on them so primary source for enchantment initially is going to be from black steel keys obtained from dailies (or store).

Assuming Heroic loot boxes drop min 120 ashes that is 129 Black Steel Keys we need to farm from dailies.
Double if you are a class such as Captain requiring at least 2 armour sets/builds.

I fully appreciate RNG will mean less and we will accumulate ash from different sources.
Neither am I saying we should all go raid the barter day 1 or ignore quest gear etc.

However, simply being able to craft essences from u23 launch will go a long way in reducing this grind.
This worked in Mordor and u23 was supposed to have even more focus on crafting, not less.

@devs - crafting needs to be primary method for obtaining essences (all tiers)

[Cordovan]

Regarding Morale and Power Potion updates, the changes to Tier 12 Crafted potions were not meant to indicate that we'd be re-doing the numbers on all potions available in-game for Update 23. Perhaps longer-term that's something we can look at, but it's out of scope for this current Update in development, sorry. There are two main drivers for %-based Morale and Power potions available in the new Lootboxes for U23, one of which is player request to make these potions, and the other being it allows us to add them to the generated-reward table for Lootboxes in a way that is relatively level-independent. Rather than adding a dozen or so potions and track it based on the level of the character opening the lootbox, it allows us to add three potions that can apply to any level. We have lowered the benefit for this week's Bullroarer update, and have added the two minute cooldown, and would appreciate any further feedback you have.

We are also aware of the Mac issues on Bullroarer, and our engineering folks are looking into it.

[Arnenna]

See that's just it. When I have posted about the gear drops in loot boxes being close to BiS people have been crying about it but have yet to offer a good excuse as to why it shouldn't be there. Honestly the landscape gear is fairly easy to get. It just takes time. I would rather "buy some time" and surpass the daily grind and go do stuff I actually enjoy. A lot of us have been playing a long time and the daily grind is pretty much the same from update to update. So let me skip it. Furthermore, make the gear in instances better. That's great. The peeps who run instances probably need better gear to do the tier 2 and (soon) 3 stuff.

Well, you've already stated the reason you prefer to buy your gear. You don't like the grind. What do you think the grinds are there for? They are there to make people prefer to buy gear than do the grinds. Think of it like a fishing net, you're already in it, because you don't like the grinds. Every time another player falls into your category, it's just another reason for them to widen the net, and widen it they will.

[Snoopy]

Because when players buy their way through the game, rather than play the game for reward, the game then ends up being designed around it. Like it is today.

Ergo, if nobody had ever bought keys, then the system would have flopped and design would have gone back to the table on how to make it a great game, where people play for rewards without ridiculous grinds added - to make buying keys preferable.

Keys - a way to NOT play the game, which means, the game will become more and more play unfriendly. Nobody will buy keys if the grinds are reasonable right?
Valar - a way to Not play the game, which means, the game will become more and more play unfriendly.
Stat Tomes in store - a way to NOT get stat tomes in game, which means, less stat tomes in game.

Apply that to other items, have a think about supply and demand and seriously - you'll may get it.

Potato. Tomato. I don't see it that way. Saying that game is designed around buying these keys is just funny to me. I have played through Mordor and North Mirkwood without having to buy keys on a couple of characters as, I'm sure, many have. The key buying is optional. What it allows us to do is do content quicker if we choose to shell out a few bucks. Otherwise just grind it out until you can access the dailies and you can get some keys for free. If the keys were not available to us for free via dailies I might be inclined to believe the P2W approach but we can earn 6 key (maybe more with the slivers that drop in FI) a week. Then with ash drops you can get from running instances daily and we can pretty much have a topped out character in about 3 weeks depending on how fast you quest. For whose of us who have played for a while we (should) know how to play our class. For those who use the Valars they will learn how to play or get weeded out from groups pretty quick. So again, we are buying time with the loot boxes.

[elzeqq]

Regarding Morale and Power Potion updates, the changes to Tier 12 Crafted potions were not meant to indicate that we'd be re-doing the numbers on all potions available in-game for Update 23. Perhaps longer-term that's something we can look at, but it's out of scope for this current Update in development, sorry. There are two main drivers for %-based Morale and Power potions available in the new Lootboxes for U23, one of which is player request to make these potions, and the other being it allows us to add them to the generated-reward table for Lootboxes in a way that is relatively level-independent. Rather than adding a dozen or so potions and track it based on the level of the character opening the lootbox, it allows us to add three potions that can apply to any level. We have lowered the benefit for this week's Bullroarer update, and have added the two minute cooldown, and would appreciate any further feedback you have.

We are also aware of the Mac issues on Bullroarer, and our engineering folks are looking into it.

If only SSG spent the time on making the instances decent, to make playerbase happy, making unique itemization like in any other MMO and lift locks, that would be great. Meanwhile we are here, making new loot tables for lootboxes.
Great priorities.

[Arnenna]

Regarding Morale and Power Potion updates, the changes to Tier 12 Crafted potions were not meant to indicate that we'd be re-doing the numbers on all potions available in-game for Update 23. Perhaps longer-term that's something we can look at, but it's out of scope for this current Update in development, sorry. There are two main drivers for %-based Morale and Power potions available in the new Lootboxes for U23, one of which is player request to make these potions, and the other being it allows us to add them to the generated-reward table for Lootboxes in a way that is relatively level-independent. Rather than adding a dozen or so potions and track it based on the level of the character opening the lootbox, it allows us to add three potions that can apply to any level. We have lowered the benefit for this week's Bullroarer update, and have added the two minute cooldown, and would appreciate any further feedback you have.

We are also aware of the Mac issues on Bullroarer, and our engineering folks are looking into it.

Are you also aware that new level 116-120 lootboxes are awarding old rewards from Mordor which when disenchanted award OLD ash currency? Are you also aware that the OLD currency will now only buy level 115 LoE gear, which is absolutely useless to the level 116-120 player that bought the key to open the box? This is because all the old rewards from Mordor, other than the level 115 gear, have been placed under the NEW currency for barter.

[Skyfoot]

...one of which is player request to make these potions, and the other being it allows us to add them to the generated-reward table...

I'm pretty sure no player asked for these potions to be put in loot-boxes and you could have accomplished the same thing by making them...wait for it...strictly a crafting item (gasp). $$G