Bullroarer Update 28 - Preview #3 CLOSED

[rlwalker1968]

Could we please hear dev reasoning behind this change?

The fact is with less and less players (because of a long line of ridiculously stupid decisions), they need to make more and more money off less and less players, literally EVERYTHING they do between now and their demise will be a cash grab. EVERY patch, expansion, or fix will be aimed at driving people to the store.

This is their biggest failure. Instead of focusing on complaints, fixing the lag, improving the service so people WANT to play, they are milking this till they die. I love the game, or what the game should be, but they have contorted it into a joke, the red headed stepchild of the Tolkein franchises.

They are only still alive because of blind fanaticism IF this were ANY other Genre....literally, it would have died within a year of Standing Still Games taking over.

[Brolad]

Can we please get a creep buff together with this freep gear bump? If you make creeps wait until "lol maybe 2021 no promises" (from stream), you're voluntarily killing a whole branch of content that hundreds of players enjoy or, at the very least, want to enjoy.

Even at this point geared freeps are leaving because it's too easy and creeps are leaving because it's too hard. Simply create PvMP gear for freeps to let those who haven't grinded gear have a chance and then balance creeps around that.

[ConsistantRager]

So where is the creep buff?

[Hephburz-2]

So where is the creep buff?

Imagine thinking they still care about PvMP?

[Arnenna]

Firstly, the Guardian changes are an absolute joke, and I can't believe this is all you have managed to come up with despite the COUNTLESS forum threads and complaints over the past 2+ years. I really cannot fathom how this is the best that you have come up with, it truly highlights how out of touch you are with the current game.

Secondly, I can fully understand the logic and get behind nerfing the amount of embers we receive from Minas Morgul content loot, makes perfect sense, I CANNOT understand why you would also apply that reduction to the War of the Three Peaks content? You want people to run this content, yes? Then it should be more incentivising than running the old content, this change does the complete opposite to that.

Half the embers for the MM loot but NOT the WoTP loot.

They shouldn't be halving any of it in my opinion. They didn't halve anything when we got the Vales, and players could earn their embers via Anvil, EM dailies and in the Vales new content. Even with all that, progress was still just a trickle.

Given they are charging VIP's for this new quest pack (and that is exactly what it is, a quest pack with new flashy names attached), and now making them do double the work for the same amount of reward, I think they are making a massive mistake.

[Arnenna]

The fact is with less and less players (because of a long line of ridiculously stupid decisions), they need to make more and more money off less and less players, literally EVERYTHING they do between now and their demise will be a cash grab. EVERY patch, expansion, or fix will be aimed at driving people to the store.

Which in turn, will lead to even less players. Or at the very least, less paying players. It's circular and will go nowhere but downward.

[Elmagor]

They shouldn't be halving any of it in my opinion. They didn't halve anything when we got the Vales, and players could earn their embers via Anvil, EM dailies and in the Vales new content. Even with all that, progress was still just a trickle.

Given they are charging VIP's for this new quest pack (and that is exactly what it is, a quest pack with new flashy names attached), and now making them do double the work for the same amount of reward, I think they are making a massive mistake.

Well, they don't suppose to give you free content for 30-40 years if you have lifetime VIP, right?

[HolyDuckTape]

Well, they don't suppose to give you free content for 30-40 years if you have lifetime VIP, right?

Yeah cause people nowadays live for 80-90 years!

[Altair6]

Well, they don't suppose to give you free content for 30-40 years if you have lifetime VIP, right?

Then they shoulda made a Lotro Part Deux. No lifetime VIP then. Oh no.

[Thurinuor]

The fact is with less and less players (because of a long line of ridiculously stupid decisions), they need to make more and more money off less and less players, literally EVERYTHING they do between now and their demise will be a cash grab. EVERY patch, expansion, or fix will be aimed at driving people to the store.

This is their biggest failure. Instead of focusing on complaints, fixing the lag, improving the service so people WANT to play, they are milking this till they die. I love the game, or what the game should be, but they have contorted it into a joke, the red headed stepchild of the Tolkein franchises.

They are only still alive because of blind fanaticism IF this were ANY other Genre....literally, it would have died within a year of Standing Still Games taking over.

This is something we a reading here since 2011. And before that it was "the game dies because of people quitting the game". It's funny.

[Arnenna]

Well, they don't suppose to give you free content for 30-40 years if you have lifetime VIP, right?

Irrelevant. Not all VIPs are lifetimers.

[ConsistantRager]

Creep buff?

[zaboch]

This is something we a reading here since 2011. And before that it was "the game dies because of people quitting the game". It's funny.

Are you saying that there hasn't been a large population decline since?

[Thurinuor]

Are you saying that there hasn't been a large population decline since?

The game is 13 years old. It's obvious that there is a decline, even WoW lost a lot of players. But: Many MMORPGs died in the meantime: Wildstar, Warhammer, etc. There haven't been so many bad decisions, otherwise Lotro wouldn't be here, right?

[zaboch]

There haven't been so many bad decisions, otherwise Lotro wouldn't be here, right?

...yes. I've known entire kinships I raided with that are now gone because there haven't been many bad decisions. Outside of raiding, however, yes, there weren't many bad decisions made (/s)

VIP only support (while at the same time dropping most features of it), continuous server problems (lag, delays, chat functionality breaking), problematic content releases (numerous reported/unfixed bugs, screen clippings and bugged quest resources), lootbox favoured meta (can't wait for gambling laws to move up in the world and see how'd they deal with them, this game is still technically operating illegally for Netherlands, just surprised nobody reported it), class balance ignorance...I can go on and further explain every single one here, but what does it matter when a good majority of the population S-keys and tries to provide input into matters they can't comprehend, to them, GAME IS PERFECT!!!AND IF YOU CRITIQUE YOU CAN LEAVE!!11!!1 (Looking at you, Landy and Laurelin players)

Right now, Im not sure how the logic for this ... let's face it, glorified quest pack locked behind a paywall (certainly not an expansion, it has less content than Mordor), is. There is sometimes a spike in population when new content drops and people come back, but there's no way that many would be even tempted. Props to returnees (again, /s)

But, why is LOTRO then still here? It's simple, massive budget cuts.
A few months ago, there was a roster leak, with a spreadsheet of employees in each department and they were pretty much running on skeleton crew, not sure for how long but it's certainly been a while. You can see the cuts happening, mostly in the art department first:

• Uniquely drawn maps were gone since Central Gondor, replaced by a zoomed out topography which looks hideous
• Many items between classes started sharing appearances and many textures have been repurposed. This has been a trend since Pelennor/Throne days.
• Many reused assets, some that have no business belonging there
  
  • AM instance is just repurposed Angmar, they made literally nothing new for it, other than the boss, but I wouldn't even dare say that, the disfigurements looks like they downloaded an owl model from Sharebin and contorted it to fit on another model
  • No new assets have been made for the entirety of Minas Morgul and Northern Anduin, even Shelob was just a glorified spider model with the same animations, Rhukhor was just a suited up Angmarim model with a larger bucket helm that was enlarged from Dolvaethor without the spikes
  • 3 mans were entirely recycled mobs and content, they didn't even bother making animations for their "specific" attacks.
  • Let's move even more back, Hrimil was the last actually unique asset developed, with new animations and rigging (even though they look a bit jagged and not fluid)
  • Again, entirety of all instances was recycled content and we saw literally nothing new in any of them. Hell, they didn't even bother changing the Arnorian symbols on Avaburg
  • I'll just say it here again, for emphasis. I'm fine with lesser/landscape mobs sharing skins or having low effort put into them, maybe even some for 3 mans. But 6 mans and especially raids should not look like the same henchmen that we fought on landscape, it's completely breaking the one unique thing LOTRO has, world building.

So yeah, that's why the game is still around. It's not because, of your implied sarcasm, that the changes (or lack thereof) didn't chase away people. They did. It's just that there have been so many budget and staff cuts in the back that are really starting to haemorrhage into the game itself at a much larger scale. And the next update is more of the same, repurposed assets, lack of balancing, more progression gating.

[gildhur]

• 
  
  • I'll just say it here again, for emphasis. I'm fine with lesser/landscape mobs sharing skins or having low effort put into them, maybe even some for 3 mans. But 6 mans and especially raids should not look like the same henchmen that we fought on landscape, it's completely breaking the one unique thing LOTRO has, world building.

The first two raids in the game in 2007, Helegrod and Rift, are filled with landscape mobs - Angmarim, spiders, drakes, giants, spirits, trolls, hillmen, worms - all identical to landscape versions. Even many of the bosses were just slightly larger or tougher landscape mobs - merrevail, gortheryg, wraiths.

Putting tougher versions of landscape mobs in an instance or raid is not a matter of laziness or inadequate staffing; it's a narrative choice. Instances in this game are narratively linked to the areas in which they're found, so of course they're going to have the same kinds of enemies.

[zaboch]

The first two raids in the game in 2007, Helegrod and Rift, are filled with landscape mobs - Angmarim, spiders, drakes, giants, spirits, trolls, hillmen, worms - all identical to landscape versions. Even many of the bosses were just slightly larger or tougher landscape mobs - merrevail, gortheryg, wraiths.

Putting tougher versions of landscape mobs in an instance or raid is not a matter of laziness or inadequate staffing; it's a narrative choice. Instances in this game are narratively linked to the areas in which they're found, so of course they're going to have the same kinds of enemies.

Nice, a defender.

Rift still had greatly differing and unique NPCs, with special animations (Ever-seer and Thraulach). Even the giants weren't just reskins, they had some unique animations and particle effects, rather than just a re-colouring.
Helegrod...hmmm....Thorog was slightly different to other mobs. Spider-wing also had unique spider models, including the boss, all of them having a special attack animation they sometimes used.
Moria...Watcher was entirely unique. DN had a ton of unique mobs made, and they even had insane voice-acting to boot.
Mirkwood...we're starting to see some copy-pasting, but they went out of their way in other departments, the lore and stories were top notch so this one should get a pass. And lieutenant's mount was entirely unique.

I'm not gonna list further, I've provided enough examples. Even if we give in to your argument, this got ripped out completely recently and was replaced by copy-pasted seethed mess.

And thanks for picking into the least influential remark I made! Shows us a thing or two about people who are still defending this mess.

[Elmagor]

Nice, a defender.

Rift still had greatly differing and unique NPCs, with special animations (Ever-seer and Thraulach). Even the giants weren't just reskins, they had some unique animations and particle effects, rather than just a re-colouring.
Helegrod...hmmm....Thorog was slightly different to other mobs. Spider-wing also had unique spider models, including the boss, all of them having a special attack animation they sometimes used.
Moria...Watcher was entirely unique. DN had a ton of unique mobs made, and they even had insane voice-acting to boot.
Mirkwood...we're starting to see some copy-pasting, but they went out of their way in other departments, the lore and stories were top notch so this one should get a pass. And lieutenant's mount was entirely unique.

I'm not gonna list further, I've provided enough examples. Even if we give in to your argument, this got ripped out completely recently and was replaced by copy-pasted seethed mess.

And thanks for picking into the least influential remark I made! Shows us a thing or two about people who are still defending this mess.

If you check Elderslade on Bullroarer, it have drakes who fly around location and change their places on landscape. It's something new, right? From what I remember, last time when we have new models was Ered Mithrin. Also, Ungoledain shifting from human form into spider form... may be you miss it too, right?

[zaboch]

If you check Elderslade on Bullroarer, it have drakes who fly around location and change their places on landscape. It's something new, right? From what I remember, last time when we have new models was Ered Mithrin. Also, Ungoledain shifting from human form into spider form... may be you miss it too, right?

• ...no. Same models and textures.
• There were no new models in Ered Mithrin, it was entirely repurposed assets. Exception's Hrimil.
• How....how is that a new model? What? They reused Gauradans model and added a new skin. THEY EVEN HOWL! A SPIDER! And their companions were originally wolves, they put so little effort into them that they didn't even bother to unhook the companion list from Evendim where they lifted the models from! HOLY ....

Please, stop. You're trying to be condescending with fundamentally broken arguments, nor have you found a way to even express them.

Edit: A new skin =//= new model.

[Elmagor]

• ...no. Same models and textures.
• There were no new models in Ered Mithrin, it was entirely repurposed assets. Exception's Hrimil.
• How....how is that a new model? What? They reused Gauradans model and added a new skin. THEY EVEN HOWL! A SPIDER! And their companions were originally wolves, they put so little effort into them that they didn't even bother to unhook the companion list from Evendim where they lifted the models from! HOLY ....

Please, stop. You're trying to be condescending with fundamentally broken arguments, nor have you found a way to even express them.

Edit: A new skin =//= new model.

Even if they create new models, 99.9% of players don't care about it. Or even don't notice that. They care about story, about gear, about emotes, about lore. I talking about different things, about their mechanic. They create more complex quests, more complex mob mechanics. Just compare car 100 years ago and car right now. You consider car from 1920 and car from 2020 as same model? 4 weels, 4 doors... or not? Games wasn't about new models.

[zaboch]

Even if they create new models, 99.9% of players don't care about it. Or even don't notice that. They care about story, about gear, about emotes, about lore. I talking about different things, about their mechanic. They create more complex quests, more complex mob mechanics. Just compare car 100 years ago and car right now. You consider car from 1920 and car from 2020 as same model? 4 weels, 4 doors... or not? Games wasn't about new models.

Yeah, you missed the entire point of the argument in the first, go read it back.

[Altair6]

They create more complex quests, more complex mob mechanics.

Really?

[HolyDuckTape]

This is just a mini-questpack



Elmagor heavy breathing

[LotroVidz]

The game is 13 years old. It's obvious that there is a decline, even WoW lost a lot of players. But: Many MMORPGs died in the meantime: Wildstar, Warhammer, etc. There haven't been so many bad decisions, otherwise Lotro wouldn't be here, right?

If you take a look at the quality of the current game, it might be due to bad decisions. If they didn't scare so many players off over the years, maybe they could afford to actually develop quality content?

[Braer]

Maybe the piggy mount is the first time in years that a mount wasn't just a reskinned base horse so actually took some work?