Yes, but they actually might "truncate" the lore there because, back in Mordor's Dwarf Allegiance in Erebor, Gimli obtained permission to take a whole colony of Dwarves down to the Glittering Caves.
So they might just compress stuff there, maybe? They did it with the Grey Company arriving in Rohan!
Cheers!
Landroval player; I am Phantion on the forums only and do not have a corresponding character in-game with that name on any server. Cheers! :)
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Yeah, the Glittering Caves doesn't have a set date when it happens.
Sources have the part about the Dwarven Colony peopled by the Dwarves of Erebor with Gimli as the first Lord of the Glittering Caves as an important place of the Dwarves at the start the Fourth Age, implying that either in Late Third Age 3019 or sometime in Third Age 3020 is when such occurs. I'd rather see Third Age 3020, gives a bit of time in the Post-Gundabad Storyline for the Folk of Erebor to get settled after the War of Three Peaks & Reclaiming Mount Gundabad.
The Elves of the Greenwood having a Colony in Ithilien (Eastern Gondor) led by Legolas also doesn't have a set date but seems to be implied to have happened before the Fourth Age began as well as they had a large hand in restoring Ithilien to it's former & greater glory.
Which based on how Durin the VII (the Durin in LOTRO) is the son of Thorin III Stonehelm instead of his descendant means that the SSG LOTRO Team will be likely to go this route at least for having the Colonies established before the Fourth Age.
But we'd need to have Gimli & Legolas depart to Mirkwood & Erebor together after their visit to the Forest of Fangorn before these two Colonies can occur.
This definitely feels like another potential filling in the gaps area - perhaps they might look at adding some stuff here when they look at Swanfleet, given the relative proximity of the two? The circled area seems smaller than the Wildwood and the Angle (although that’s not a measured, scientific judgement, just based on a glance!), so might not be big enough for a full ‘mini-region’ - unless it was expanded up into the Misties, or if we was the home of the Cuan Luth, following the story of the Angle (although I’ve not quite completed it yet, so don’t know if that would fit).
- Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
- Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -
Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts
I have been thinking over things with LOTRO since the Angle was announced & was added along with how the SSG LOTRO Team have switched into "Filling the Gaps" for Development. I think some old inconsistencies need to be addressed sometime in the future once more New Content is being added in or around Eregion.
Granted this is just my thoughts but maybe others feel the same & possibly have Scenario chime in on how the Eregion Regional Map is compared to how the Eriador Map currently is designed.
https://lotro-wiki.com/images/3/31/Eriador_map.jpg Current Eriador Map for Reference.
https://lotro-wiki.com/images/c/c1/Eregion_map.jpg Current Eregion Map for Reference.
Now granted this is just a very rough estimate but I had been doing some Exploring + random things in LOTRO since the Angle came out and I've thought of how the Eriador Map is compared to the Maps for the Individual Regions.
Eriador & Eregion Maps:
For Eregion's Map, the Rivers Sirannon (Red) and Glanduin (Dark Blue-ish) meet fairly close the to the Misty Mountains which is correct as the the Sirannon used to flow into the Glanduin. The issue is that with how Eregion was originally developed and lines up with the current Eriador Map, Gwingris (shown as the Yellow Dot along the River Bruinen) is not where it should be relative to where it is within Eregion. It should be roughly in the Black Marked Area in the North-West Corner while still having the Bruinen where it bends near the Yellow Dot naturally occurs.
Basically we are missing roughly 2/3 of Eregion compared to what it should be at least compared to the Current Eriador Map. Gwingris would need to be further West compared to it's current position of North and just slightly East of Mirobel (Purple Dot) within LOTRO.
Personal Idea:
Just my personal Idea and that being a Large Revamp for the Eregion part of LOTRO and would involve having Eregion become a Main Region with 4 Separate Sub-Regions consisting of: Western Eregion, Eastern Eregion, Swanfleet and the Walls of Moria.
The overall goal would be to bring things more in line with how they should be:
- Gwingris being located where it is at that bend on the South Side of the River Bruinen which would be further West than it's Current Eregion Map Position.
- Having Eregion's Western Border be the River Mitheithel and bringing everything more in line with how it should be.
- Current Eregion would roughly in the South & East stay the same but would need some reworking for the Entrance at Gwingris. This would be Eastern Eregion.
- Swanfleet would be in the South West Corner of Eregion. It does cover both sides of the River Glanduin and lies to the East of what is the "Greenway" & the Crossing of Tharbad.
Swanfleet Info:
Swanfleet resembled the Gladden Fields on the East Side of the Misty Mountains in terms of it's terrain. And "Swanfleet was effectively an inland delta, with uncertain streams and a very uncertain difference between land and water."
We can't use the Atlas of Middle-Earth but it gives the dimensions of Swanfleet which is represented by the Cyan-ish color: "According to The Atlas of Middle-earth, it was about fifty miles in length from west to east and over twenty-five miles from north and south."
So even while the SSG LOTRO Team can't use what would be the "Canon Rough Dimensions" they can still do something fairly akin where Swanfleet would be wider than it is tall for a Region.
Last edited by Harvain; Feb 27 2022 at 03:20 AM.
Great suggestions!
Another thing I've noticed is that LOTRO's map scale actually isn't in-line, even when scaled down, compared to Tolkien's:
All the maps of Middle-earth outside game have the Angle's southern tip a bit farther northwest of the parallel-with-Moria. "Mirobel" / "Ost-en-Edhil" is actually "supposed" to be roughly parallel to the Swanfleet. Instead, as you can see from the ruins above Tornhad, in-game Glanduin flows out roughly parallel with the bottom of the Angle instead of into the Swanfleet.
This basically tells us that the coordinates were fundamentally "off" to begin-with. Eregion is just that truncated from north-to-south. If they had followed Tolkien's placement of things roughly, even with downscaling, Eregion would've been at least twice its current length from north to south before encountering Enedwaith or Dunland.
I'd say Eregion is precisely in the same boat as the Iron Hills and the Shire, both of which had "extra truncated" map-scales out of concerns of potential player boredom or feeling overwhelmed, etc. I still think its weird that the Hill pretty much dominates the northern Shire, that the relative scale between Iron Hills and Erebor makes Erebor look too gigantic, and that Eregion is so small that you can even see Burnt Tor, part of Hollin Ridge, and Mirobel all from the Angle across the missing terrain between.
I get why they made their landscape decisions; but it still just won't ever feel anything but weird to me because it is jarringly off-kilter no matter how you slice it, even if for player convenience, etc.
In that respect, the Angle's placement - arguably since the development of the Trollshaws - pretty much set in stone that Eregion's one of those even-extra-smaller-scaled regions that just doesn't fit with Tolkien's map. Tolkien's map also has other mountains from the roughly game equivalent of Giant Valley / Pend Eregion before encountering Caradhras much farther to the south; the game just gobbles it all up into Caradhras and the other two Mountains of Moria.
Of course, this has an interesting side-effect: the Rhovanion side of the Misties feels far closer to a scaled-down but still-scaled-as-equivalent version of Tolkien's map. The Eriador side feels uncanny now. True, the Rhovanion side goes much farther north. But even if you just take Lothlorien and follow that down to the equivalent of the Gap of Rohan on the Rhovanion side --- where you have Great River, the Wold / Wildermore, and those Fangorn regions......... it still feels better because none of those areas felt "extra-down-scaled" in the same way Eregion does. The Enedwaith - Dunland transitions make the differences stand out even more: as Enedwaith and Dunland are more equivalent to Tolkien's scale, scaled-down, whereas Eregion just isn't.
So, no matter how they update Eregion, which I hope they will do, there will be......... wonky map scaling from north to south, etc. That's unless, of course, they at least try to circumvent the issue by re-routing Glanduin somehow once it passes Mirobel and just have a whole chunk of West Eregion behind the Gloomglens and Fordirith leading over to the Swanfleet or something. Ehh..... it's just going to be it's own little universe either way.
Cheers!
Landroval player; I am Phantion on the forums only and do not have a corresponding character in-game with that name on any server. Cheers! :)
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Yeah Eregion is a bit off and should've been way bigger, but it's a concession to playability since this is a game first and foremost. It's too late to make a deep redesign of it, and the zone works well enough as it is (and how beautiful it is!). I want it to get expanded with additional land to the west so that it's connected to the Angle and a future Swanfleet, but what is already made isn't realistically going to change, aside from maybe a bigger Mirobel.
...
That said:
Not exactly a "filling the gaps" type of zone, but then again neither is the Angle so I'll share this other zone I've thought of. Basically since it would be too small to be a proper region. It could be added as an extension of "Gap of Rohan", I guess.
Many people have been wishing for alternatives to Rohan's mounted combat and this one could help out a little, perhaps for the 75-80 level range? It would be designed as a zone with more conventional questing.
West-march of Rohan, an "angle" between the Isen and Adorn rivers, with the Ered Nimrais as its eastern border.
Roughly something like this (take it with a grain of salt ):
It would further extend the battle of Rohan against the Dunlendings, act as a potential gate to other regions surrounding the White Mountains like Drüwath Iaur, Andrast and Anfalas if they ever get to them*, and feature some nice questline for Brawler lore as well.
"It was held as a fortified area under the command of the Kings of Rohan in opposition to the hostile Dunlendings. In TA 2754 the region was held by Lord Freca. When he quarrelled with Helm Hammerhand, who killed him with a single blow, the West-March rebelled under Freca' son Wulf I, allying with the Dunlendings to invade Rohan during the Long Winter. Rohan's control was restored over a century later by King Folcwine. By the end of the late Third Age, Théodred was its lord and during the War of the Ring it passed to Erkenbrand. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/West-March
* While I understand (and share!) that players have had enough of dwarf-things for the time being, the dwarven holds of Kechel and Zígil-jabal were mentioned in some quest text but have yet to appear in LOTRO. It would be nice to go there someday, even if it's probably far from being a priority, since right now -besides High Elves coming from the Elder Days and Lindon Elves- White Mountains' Dwarves are the only playable characters that can't quite return to their chosen hometown of origin (character creation) yet.
Last edited by Valather89; Mar 01 2022 at 07:24 AM.
I wholeheartedly agree!
I'd also say this much: I think the issue with Eregion was less, on my part, of a "if only they could fix this," and more of a, "I wish, if I could go back in time, that they had done X, but it's far too late." The same is true for the coordinate layout of the Shire, which is fixed by Ered Luin and the forthcoming Yondershire's positioning in the coordinates, as well as Evendim and Forochel.
These were decisions made way back when that can't be undone. I still think it a pity, especially with the Shire, as it basically turns the woods where the Hobbits had their secret refuge with the High Elves into a 1-acre country backyard, with Woodhall right below instead of farther in the distance, and it makes the journey to Farmer Maggot from there turn from a long and dangerous trek through marshlands into a country stroll down the road and across a couple reed-beds. But all that said, it's a game first, and I get that.
I think I just would have wished that they'd use consistent down-scaling versus "Some areas are far more downscaled than other areas."
Because every single time they do this, it will have consequences for their other world-building. Iron Hills is the largest example here. They are far too close to Erebor. It places the River Carnen, on the coordinate map, directly parallel to the River Celduin. Doesn't seem like a big deal yet.
But watch: the Carnen flows directly into the Celduin, which flows into the northwest of the Sea of Rhun. The Sea of Rhun is supposed to be above eastern Mordor. Here's a map:
http://lotrproject.com/map/#zoom=3&l...&layers=BTTTTT
When you place those two rivers as parallel with each other, with the Carnen flowing out not that far from Long Lake, it vastly truncates the distance between east and west, causing the rivers to converge much sooner. When that happens, Rhun will then be too close to Gorgoroth and Mirkwood. It further truncates the terrain where the East Bight could be placed, etc., and potentially turn Middle Mirkwood into a tiny sliver of trees.
These decisions have world-building consequences.
Now, one thing they could do is construct a new tributary heading due south of Jarnfast, but re-develop / divert it further east, which would allow for the Carnen's main flow to be far more east than Skald's Drop. I'd encourage this. They should reverse their decisions for that river-system. If they can't change the coordinates, they can change which part of the Carnen forms the main river. They can re-develop that terrain. The tributary that flows south of Skald's Drop, I'd say, should then be diverted in a southeastern direction to converge with the main flow coming from the Jarnfast area, and that would, I think, craft a genuine enough distance between the Carnen and the Celduin to mirror Tolkien's map on a smaller scale more closely. That is what I'd recommend at this stage of it, and that would allow for Rhun to be placed more where it should be on a downscaled version of Tolkien's map.
Similarly, I think that expanding the farthings of the Shire as they are with Yondershire is a great way to solve the truncated Shire issue, and they are doing so both north of Bindebole Wood, west of Needlehole, and the South Farthing is a whole other needed direction they could go in. I do think that, eventually, the road down to Sarn Ford should be included, and the terrain south of the Shire and Bree-land filled-in to connect ultimately with Lone-lands, the Angle, Eregion, Swanfleet / Tharbad, and Enedwaith, and Minhiriath could potentially have lots of Numenorean ruins and stuff from the ancient past, involving both Druedain and Ents (*"Fangorn" was once just 1 huge forest across everything including Mirkwood, and the Numenoreans did lots of lumbering), and they could bring the River-Maidens theme back into play as with Goldberry and Tom Bombadil, and so on.
I think Eregion should be expanded westward and southwestward. I think that's where the potential lies. I know it would take a lot of work involving moving the Volume 1 instance into a new format, but I'd strongly advise that Tham Mirdain should be significantly expanded and woven into the landscape, and that could solve a lot of the truncation issues there. I think they could, in theory, divert the flow of the Glanduin more southwestward before flowing into the Swan-fleet, which would be a good way to compensate for their prior decisions. There are things they can do to help expand those directions.
West-March of Rohan would be a great addition.
Cheers!
Landroval player; I am Phantion on the forums only and do not have a corresponding character in-game with that name on any server. Cheers! :)
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- Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
- Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -
Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts
I've been having another look at this area suggested, and it is potentially pretty big.
I've been thinking of this area as 'The Misty Foothills', for want of a better name!
You've got the southern part which is in Enedwaith proper (from the border with Nan Laeglin up to the river that I think is the Glanduin?) You've then also got the bit north across the river, which borders with the Walls of Moria. In addition, you've also got the blue bit, which might also be included.
Stories that might fit here:
- The Cuan Luth that we meet in the Trollshaws must have come from somewhere! Perhaps this is their homeland?
- Zudrugund is just south of this zone - perhaps the snowy bit might have some more extended halls of Thrain in exile? Perhaps the northern end of the zone could also have a connection into one of the Halls of Moria, such as the Waterworks?
- Old Elven ruins (linking into the storyline of Eregion to the north) could also be included.
- The zone could also connect up to the Peaks of the Misty Mountains zone that I suggested further up in this thread.
- Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
- Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -
Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts
Personally I'd like to see the area between Enedwaith and Bree-land. Then I can finally have my Captain recreate Boromir's journey to Rivendell in full.
Eats like a Hobbit, drinks like a Dwarf, farts like an Orc...
You're certainly not the only one! The reason that I haven't included it here is because such a zone would have to be massive - even East Rohan or the Vales of Anduin (two of the biggest regions we've made) wouldn't cover it. I get the feeling that this area awaits an expansion and a few more 'filling in the gaps' zones around the current fringes of Eriador to become feasible.
- Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
- Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -
Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts
I dunno, it doesn't seem THAT massive?
Eats like a Hobbit, drinks like a Dwarf, farts like an Orc...
Oh, it is. Don't take that map at face value, it's mostly artistic and altered compared to how the game's real terrain map works.
Take a look at this instead (ignore the big square with the Moria map):
I outlined every region's boundaries (white color), and used grey for impassable areas. The map hasn't been updated with the Angle yet, but I colored it blue, as well as a potential Southfarthing of the Shire region, since both would be boundaries of this area too. I used yellow to mark the North-South Road connecting Isengard and Fornost. Well, the missing terrain that you're asking for is basically everything surrounding that road (pink color), which -as you can see- is huge and the size of basically three regions put together. Even if they just ignored some adjacent areas (south of Lone-Lands, or near the Southfarthing) to make this new hypothetical region more corridor-like, it would still have to cover a very huge stretch of landmass. I mean, just compare it to the size of the Angle or the Wildwood. And that's without even trying to extend it to southern Minhiriath and Eryn Vorn, near the sea.
Last edited by Valather89; Mar 20 2022 at 06:03 PM.
I really want to fill with more ideas this thread because i love the discussion here.
The image bellow is how i dream an alternate Road for low levels. Also it is a way to bring those regions earlier in the game and not necessary connect them with the end of the "fellowship journey" . I mean why Mithlod and South shire should be the "END GAME" and not the Start?
So look the photo bellow
So!!!!
Red region will include Mithlod (Grey heavens) and Tower Hills. It is gonna be a level 5-15 for High Elves and future Dunedain race. There are many ways for High elves to start there "story wise" and Dunedains too.
Blue region will include Southfarthings for level 15-25. Your hobbits can progress directly from Shire to this zone instead of traveling to Bree. I know we got Yodenshire now for that kind of progression but still gives another alternative.
Purple region for South downs for levels 25-30. An alternate to Lone Lands.
Green region for Thurbad's region and for levels 30-40.
I believe those regions can offer more as low level regions than waiting them for "goodbyes" and scourgings. For scourging of the shire we can returne any time in the future with a battle version and on Mithlod with an instance saying goodbye to Frodo again any time in the future. We do not have to wait really!!! There are options to bring those regions earlier in the game.
Those regions can also be premium and unlockable with Lotro points. Don't need to give them free. High elves can still have the option to start on a free Ered luin zone or Mithlod. The same with Dunedains with Bree lands as a free option.
REMOVE Rohan Kingstead Homestead from the open world map it ruins the immersion and a shame for the ART.
Oh, I totally agree with you! The Devs seem to be under this superstition that "Grey Havens" can't enter game till it's time to end it forever.
Of course, if that's their mentality, then any hint of the Havens in development will actually be pretty sad, if that's their working context for the Havens: the end of the game. So, if that's the case, then I guess unless it's a lower-level area, I'll be pretty concerned if that starts coming on the horizon.
That said, there's no reason in the world why they couldn't do Forlindon and Harlindon without having - anything to do - with the Grey Havens, if they are dead-set on saving the Havens for last. I mean, there could be completely different passes through Ered Luin, perhaps via northern Ered Luin, to get out there, and there are two other High Elven havens named Forlond and Harlond that straddle the Gulf of Lhun.
Here's the thing: Mithlond is actually geographically far closer to Celondim. It's not that far from where the River Lhun enters the Gulf of Lhun; it isn't directly on the open shores of the Sea. The ships sail through the Gulf and then out into the sea.
So, there's definitely more than 1 way they could do this, and once again, I agree with you that I'd prefer the Havens as a starter area than not. But, if that's not in the cards, Forlindon and Harlindon are each, separately, as big as Rohan, and so, I see little reason for them not to include those as their own separate High Elven areas, perhaps by building the missing Northern Ered Luin for Forlindon, etc.
There's also a missing land-gap between Ered Luin, Evendim, and Forochel that Yondershire will not quite fill, which opens up some more areas for some further contiguity if, say, they wanted to fill-in both sides of the mountains and perhaps even bring Frostbluff into the wider game-world, which would also be pretty neat, as that's in northern Ered Luin closer to Forochel.
And, I can say that Frostbluff isn't far from the Sea either, so that actually would be a very good way to build a mountain pass between, say, a "Vales of Lhun" zone (*contiguous with the area of Forochel near the Dwarven area), a "Northern Ered Luin" zone, and Forlindon. I'd even venture to say it would be good to allow a player to follow the coast from Forlindon up and around into the game version of the lower Ice Bay, into Kuru-lehri, and so on.
Thus, even if they do still want to wait on the Grey Havens till the very end, my point is that there's still plenty of High Elven / Elven and Dwarven content they could make by cracking into Forlindon from a different, more northwestern direction. It wouldn't be terribly hard to give southeastern Forlindon a natural rock barrier barring the road toward the Havens or something until a later date if they are still in that mindset.
Forlond would actually be a pretty good "compromise" port that's on the Gulf of Lhun for giving a working High Elven Haven city that's not the same port that Frodo sails from but that remains a port city, nonetheless, which is a compromise I'd be fine with versus nothing.
Cheers!
Landroval player; I am Phantion on the forums only and do not have a corresponding character in-game with that name on any server. Cheers! :)
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Edit: At June the 21st of 2022 I discovered *SOMEHOW* (ehem...) I did not read the #1 post where it is already suggested... Sorry! Let's take this as as "suggestion for post #1"...
For the Mount Gram suggestion:
- @SSG_Orion has returned, and seems he is the original PvsMP developer.
- Northern expansion of Lone-Lands.
- Naturalization of the "Garth Agarwen/Agamaur in a shoebox" current situation (knowing @Scenario * pretty sure that is covered in red by how much bleeding it caused in his eyes that placement design).
- Connection with Angmar (so we finally understand WHY there is Gabilshathûr AFTER Rammas Deluon!).
- Tons of empty places to be filled with... Something.
- Mount Gram, new mountain to be seen from far away but NOT from the Bree-Rivendell road.
- New portals to the Ettenmoors? Now from Bree? North Downs?
- North Downs western side full-of-enemies and main Angmar road are now finally justified.
- New Mount Gram mini PvMP area?
- Mount Gram is a volcano! Lava? Hot springs?
- Rhudaur? Cameth Brin/Rhudaur-capital-city?
- Earth-kin motherland? (as they are in each side)
And a map:
And another one:
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Mount_Gram
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Rhudaur
* And then we have this! Casual Stroll of 19th of April2022 : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1460975337?t=00h26m03s
Last edited by Carallot; Jun 20 2022 at 07:57 PM.
Dear reader, I tend to edit my posts A LOT, sorry. Please don't be hasty, thank you!
Member
I do have to say: I'm kind of agreeing with the Devs' instincts not to fill in every gap, as between southern Evendim and Yondershire closer to Annuminas, the more I've thought about it, and the same with not filling-in the Bindebole Wood divider between northern Yondershire and the Shire proper.
I think the less obstacles there are = the more the down-scale of the game-world becomes apparent. I've always felt Chetwood feels too small for this reason - not really the leagues upon leagues of wilderness Strider and company cross (*Staddle is practically on the fringe of the Midgewater Marshes!).
So, while I love the Angle, Yondershire, and Wild-wood, and feel those were great moves to make, I also think it's good to have some boundaries that force you to travel "the long 'way around" as that makes the game-world feel so much bigger. The more barriers are removed = the less large the game-world feels.
I think there are exceptions to this; like how the missing vales in the White Mountains in Central Gondor just make Lebennin feel that much smaller, not larger. But I do think it's good for them to make it harder to travel in a direct line between certain areas; the journey from Annuminas to Bar Aroth in Yondershire, for example, feels like a proper journey rather than "a shortcut." I know I've said the contrary in the past, but now, I've changed my mind.
I think it's also good that they didn't quite give us a truncated version of the Far Downs in Yondershire for that same reason; it'll allow them to expand that more to the southwest of Michel Delving when they finally come to it.
I think that...... Rohan is a good example of what happens when you don't have many barriers. I think Tolkien's "sea of grass" was a tall order to begin with, and it becomes very difficult once you ride only a couple of meters and can suddenly see Fangorn, or Wildermore, or the East Wall, or the Gap of Rohan, or Edoras and its surrounds no matter what you do. That's where the player really has to reduce the landscape draw manually to really feel "in Rohan." That's where the Angle, with its more complex box canyons, does a really good job in feeling far bigger even though its technically a smaller expansion of a current zone. Wild-wood is similar that way. The genius of Moria's design is that what would have been a quick 3 minute jot on a war-steed becomes a very complicated navigation process.
This is also where I think it would be good to have some gaps between the Lone-lands and other areas, north or south, because the Lone-lands only feel big because it's kind of a horizontal zone. As soon as one tries to make it vertical, it would actually feel even smaller, paradoxically. The winding, lonely road that arcs around Weathertop makes it so you - don't - realize that Garth Agarwen is actually far closer than you'd think it is.
In short: Filling-in-gaps can be good, but we have to remember the risks of certain draw-backs to that approach. I'm thinking of the missing parts of "Northern Mirkwood." Why does the journey to Ered Mithrin feel long and arduous? Because you HAVE to go around; you can't just ride north from Felegoth. And, if we could "just ride north from Felegoth," it would totally kill the illusion; suddenly, it would be like: "oh........................... . you mean, Oinsbridge was literally RIGHT THERE just 2 minutes away???" In that way, it's actually - good - that we have to come out in the Dale-lands and follow that long, winding trail all the way around to get there.
I think that's where having a choppy Mirkwood is also good. Why does Dol Guldor feel so far from Felegoth? Because we can't just ride there vertically, and if we could, and it only took 5 minutes, it would be yet another moment of: "Oh................. that's how close it was?"
I could see an argument made to have different connectors on the opposite side of the forest, say, from Fields of Celduin to be able to go to Dol Guldor from the east, and perhaps through Laerlad via "Middle Mirkwood," but I'd say: yeah, let those be separate paths, as it makes Mirkwood feel far larger as this dark and threatening forest that goes on forever and ever and ever if you - have - to ride around.
I think the Art is in finding the balance between these extremes Finding a way to make the world feel whole and immersive...... but without making it so that everything feels too close. This is where not being able to cross from Wild-wood to Fornost directly is a good thing; you still have to go around somewhat to get up there, which still makes the world feel bigger.
If I could change 1 thing about LOTRO, it would be this: to up the scale a notch or two. I would have wanted it to take 5 minutes of riding to get from Woody End to Farmer Maggot's in the Shire, for example, instead of 30 seconds. I would have wanted it to take just a little bit more time to be able to get from A to B. Since that is not possible, the next best alternative is to make zones as complex as they can be while still allowing for a "sense of scale" - and Yondershire did an excellent job with that, especially with how, if you exclusively travel through the Moors or through the woods, everything can feel pretty vast and expansive.
*Also, I have noticed some landscape changes around the Angle, *winks*
Cheers!
Landroval player; I am Phantion on the forums only and do not have a corresponding character in-game with that name on any server. Cheers! :)
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They have definitely changed something to the south of the Angle.
Paving the way for the Swanfleet?
(This is all on live servers btw, I'm not on Bullroarer)
I was just standing on that ledge the other night, quite a view from up there.
<< Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir
Kinda unrelated but: I'd like to mention Fanuidhol, northwest in the Lothlorien region, is quite underdeveloped and underutilized currently. I'd like to see it get some love in a future update. (Visually, it's honestly just the tree asset repetition I saw there that I have an issue with. And if ground snow could be improved some too, that would be nice for the area and other snowy areas like Ered Luin. Also, the '2D' leaves/leaf curtains in Lothlorien need improving.) I'd just like to see seemingly forgotten areas get some more love in general and have exploration become a little more rewarding.
Anyway, I agree that there should be a continued keeping of the balance between wanting every region added to the game and keeping the mystery to keep the world feeling larger than it is. Personally, though, I want to see Central/Middle(?) Mirkwood get added and for it to connect the gap between the southern and northern regions. I thought they included it when they added Northern Mirkwood, but then that released alongside other regions and so it makes sense that they couldn't also complete the entirety of Mirkwood yet.
Been playing LOTRO on and off since 4/16/2013! | - Landroval, Laurelin -
*'Deceiver' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ0RwCzh_xI - a LOTRO fan trailer I made, with voice acting attempt
<< Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir
Oh, interesting. I'm still not sure how I feel about the seemingly repeated tree assets over there, though, and how they're all fine. Like, you'd think Orcs would fell or damage some trees for lumber or whatever reasons. Or the trees just looked mostly the same to me and I would've liked some variety in the assets. idk As it is, the only apparent difference is that there are the mature trees and the baby trees, and there are a lot of them littering the area.
Been playing LOTRO on and off since 4/16/2013! | - Landroval, Laurelin -
*'Deceiver' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ0RwCzh_xI - a LOTRO fan trailer I made, with voice acting attempt
Nice find! Following a comment from someone on the LOTRO Reddit the other day, I was scouring the southern borders of Bree-land, and looking through the Andrath gate there looks like there have potentially been some changes there too (although I’m not 100%). Will share a screenshot when I get a chance.
All of the southern Bree-land borders have also been levelled a fair bit, particularly from Ost Baranor to Minas Eriol - they aren’t cross able, but they look like they might be able to be smoothed down quite easily. Don’t know how long that’s been the case for though.
- Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
- Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -
Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts