Limited availability pets - What about completionists?

[Brethwyn_EU]

I must say the season track awards compel me to play the game. But missing out on the "limited availability pets" or whatever rewards are at the end of the "season" is like a stab in the guts for a completionist. How will I ever be able to complete my collection of pets if they are only available for a limited time, never to be seen again? Will the reward track at least rotate, so at some point in the future they will be made available again? This is also, I would say, a near waste production wise; creating a pet for only a period of time that only a few number of people will be able to catch. At least in the store you can buy the pets whenever you want... So, another suggestion is that the pets (and other rewards) that go out of the reward tracker, will be available in the store. What are the thougts behind this, does anyone know?

[Fadil]

I must say the season track awards compel me to play the game. But missing out on the "limited availability pets" or whatever rewards are at the end of the "season" is like a stab in the guts for a completionist. How will I ever be able to complete my collection of pets if they are only available for a limited time, never to be seen again? Will the reward track at least rotate, so at some point in the future they will be made available again? This is also, I would say, a near waste production wise; creating a pet for only a period of time that only a few number of people will be able to catch. At least in the store you can buy the pets whenever you want... So, another suggestion is that the pets (and other rewards) that go out of the reward tracker, will be available in the store. What are the thougts behind this, does anyone know?

Apart from the fact you're a bit dramatic (a stab in the guts, my, my..), what is stopping you from getting the pet, like every other player?
I was away from the game for 6 weeks, and am currently on level 98 of the reward track, by simply playing the game.
I havent used a single exp rune yet...

[WeirdJedi]

They will come back. This was already confirmed:

No reward on the LI Reward Track will appear only in one season, but there will probably be long breaks before they reappear, particularly more unique rewards, such as cosmetics. Rarely, if ever, will these sorts of rewards be available in back-to-back seasons.

[Strider5548]

I must say the season track awards compel me to play the game. But missing out on the "limited availability pets" or whatever rewards are at the end of the "season" is like a stab in the guts for a completionist. How will I ever be able to complete my collection of pets if they are only available for a limited time, never to be seen again? Will the reward track at least rotate, so at some point in the future they will be made available again? This is also, I would say, a near waste production wise; creating a pet for only a period of time that only a few number of people will be able to catch. At least in the store you can buy the pets whenever you want... So, another suggestion is that the pets (and other rewards) that go out of the reward tracker, will be available in the store. What are the thougts behind this, does anyone know?

Raninia mentioned before leaving that they will come back, just not immediately, so you'll have a chance again. The bigger issue I think is for players who like to complete everything on multiple alts, since reward track rewards are only claimed by one character.

[Flaxie]

Apart from the fact you're a bit dramatic (a stab in the guts, my, my..), what is stopping you from getting the pet, like every other player?
I was away from the game for 6 weeks, and am currently on level 98 of the reward track, by simply playing the game.
I havent used a single exp rune yet...

I wish I knew how you manage that, as I play every day and have not yet made it halfway through one.

[wispsong]

I wish I knew how you manage that, as I play every day and have not yet made it halfway through one.

There are certain charcters/areas that don't get ixp, characters without the seeker title and areas before Moria. I had mine filled in 4 weeks doing Gundabad, festival and some missions/dailies. And I can't sit long times on the computer. If you have ixp runes, you can use them to fill the rest a day before reset.

I agree that this is not ideal, and cosmetics should either be in the first half or not at all in this track due to the limitations mentioned above. But there are pets/cosmetics that aren't even in the game anymore that are in the collection. And others are even harder to get.

[Baritone]

There are many items that do no return or just plain can't be obtained. For instance there is an anniversary celebration pig in collections that was only given to players that had lifetime subscriptions. Not to mention the lively slug and corgis which were only given away in twitch streams or lotteries like they just had or given by devs in special events. And then there are the midsummer pets that only came from hobbit presents that havent been available the past 2 midsummer festivals. I've requested many times a limited time/special giveaway tab in the collections panel...I have no problem with them being collectable but they should be in their own genre

[Strider5548]

There are many items that do no return or just plain can't be obtained. For instance there is an anniversary celebration pig in collections that was only given to players that had lifetime subscriptions. Not to mention the lively slug and corgis which were only given away in twitch streams or lotteries like they just had or given by devs in special events. And then there are the midsummer pets that only came from hobbit presents that havent been available the past 2 midsummer festivals. I've requested many times a limited time/special giveaway tab in the collections panel...I have no problem with them being collectable but they should be in their own genre

TBH there should never be 'limited time' collectibles, at the very least they should bring those back for special events like charity donations or community events where Cord drops pets for people to pick up.

I'd like to see the entire collectibles UI overhauled to include way more elements from the game and become more consistent. I have multiple accounts and the # of potential mounts/pets varies by account, so clearly they don't show everything there.

[Cordovan]

In general we too don't want "limited availability" items to never be able to come back in the future, as we have well learned we have players joining all the time who miss items from years ago, for example. So, I'd expect these items to return in the future, but don't bank on it being any time soon, so if you are a completionist type, consider getting it when you can rather than hope for the future. BUT, I'd expect it to come back again someday in a Reward Track or similar rotation.

[maartena]

I must say the season track awards compel me to play the game. But missing out on the "limited availability pets" or whatever rewards are at the end of the "season" is like a stab in the guts for a completionist. How will I ever be able to complete my collection of pets if they are only available for a limited time, never to be seen again?

The reward track will eventually repeat so you can do it again and again over the years for different toons.

As for being a completionist, it is pretty much impossible to be complete as there have been a fair amount of limited time availability pets, and there are some pets only issued by SSG staff for certain special events, some of which are very rarely and randomly issued. Some steeds are no longer available, not even for mithril coins during festivals.

[maartena]

In general we too don't want "limited availability" items to never be able to come back in the future, as we have well learned we have players joining all the time who miss items from years ago, for example. So, I'd expect these items to return in the future, but don't bank on it being any time soon, so if you are a completionist type, consider getting it when you can rather than hope for the future. BUT, I'd expect it to come back again someday in a Reward Track or similar rotation.

I think the biggest issue with the reward track is that it is accountwide. That makes sense for its intended purpose, but it does allow you to only get the pet for ONE toon. If you have 7 alts, and the pet only comes back once a year, it will take 7 years......

[Flaxie]

There are certain charcters/areas that don't get ixp, characters without the seeker title and areas before Moria. I had mine filled in 4 weeks doing Gundabad, festival and some missions/dailies. And I can't sit long times on the computer. If you have ixp runes, you can use them to fill the rest a day before reset.

I agree that this is not ideal, and cosmetics should either be in the first half or not at all in this track due to the limitations mentioned above. But there are pets/cosmetics that aren't even in the game anymore that are in the collection. And others are even harder to get.

Right now, the char I've been playing is plodding through the Helm's Deep part of the Epic. My standard method is to follow the Epic generally, completing the region deeds before moving on. (All slayers, explorers, etc.) I can't wait to get HD done, I hate HD with a purple passion.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

I think the biggest issue with the reward track is that it is accountwide. That makes sense for its intended purpose, but it does allow you to only get the pet for ONE toon. If you have 7 alts, and the pet only comes back once a year, it will take 7 years......

It's Server Based, not account wide. So, in my case, I can earn the full reward track on 6 separate servers.

[maartena]

It's Server Based, not account wide. So, in my case, I can earn the full reward track on 6 separate servers.

Aye. But I do believe the majority of players keep to one server, or maybe two at most.....

And I would hate to see how much time one would have to invest to be a completionist on 6 servers!

[CloudCastle]

I wish I knew how you manage that, as I play every day and have not yet made it halfway through one.

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that season two's reward track is harder to advance. I play regularly but am only around level 60. I'm wondering if different activities and/or your character's level affects how much exp goes towards the track. When season 1 came out I was still pushing through Gundabad and that character got ranks very easily just through quest turn-ins. Now I have two characters running Gundabad dailies and solo instances and it doesn't seem to move the track much at all. I am also questing at level 70-something and at level 50-something. I hope I'llbe able to complete it before it ends next month, especially since I'll be away for some of that and won't be able to play.

[Belnavar]

It really bothers me that the game encourages people to collect and complete collections with a dedicated panel, only to then offer pets in restrictive, limited-time ways. This just isn't fun.

First, we had the festival Hobbit Gift exclusive pets and horses, which were time-limited and luck-based (unless you gambled -- and I don't think the EU thinks well of that in games, not to mention it being arguably an unethical approach in the first place). Thankfully, that seems to be changing, and we saw some of those pets added to a barter for the Midsummer Festival.

But now we have pets that are exclusive to lockboxes, which is just as bad. No matter how much money someone throws at the game, they may never get those pets.

Do you want us to actually play the game? Because for players like me, who like to collect these things, this approach is so off-putting that I'm more likely to quit entirely and find a different game that doesn't take this approach (and I say that as a 15+ year veteran, who has predominantly defended the game and the development team -- the fact that I'm criticising many of SSG's decisions lately, manner of which it seems were former Producer Raninia's, is, I would think, rather alarming).

I understand that SSG needs to make money, but it sometimes seems like you don't take into consideration the actual gameplay experience of players that these changes and approaches target. I hope, for the sake of long-term and new players alike, and for the future success of the game, that you listen more and prioritise playing and having fun in the game. If that's the focus, I and others will spend more to support the game.

-Bel

[WeirdJedi]

It really bothers me that the game encourages people to collect and complete collections with a dedicated panel, only to then offer pets in restrictive, limited-time ways. This just isn't fun.

First, we had the festival Hobbit Gift exclusive pets and horses, which were time-limited and luck-based (unless you gambled -- and I don't think the EU thinks well of that in games, not to mention it being arguably an unethical approach in the first place). Thankfully, that seems to be changing, and we saw some of those pets added to a barter for the Midsummer Festival. But now we have pets that are exclusive to lockboxes, which is just as bad. No matter how much money someone throws at the game, they may never get those pets.

I see most of these things as experiments. There is bound to be someone along the way that makes a suggestion like "how about we tie certain quests to only the day or night cycle to make things interesting" and you'll suddenly find out how many people don't actually like that idea. Or maybe incorporate a festival that is available on a frequent basis like Hobnanigans where you play a little bit at a time until you eventually earn a reward.

Do you know that I still have not completed the Yule Festival "Bringer of Good Cheer" for the Wild Grey Donkey? The only missions available the first year was from War of Three Peaks which was purchase-only at the time and it requires 40 days of missions, beyond the length of the festival. They have offered exclusive cosmetics for those who are VIP a certain month, which they have at least allowed one of the steeds to be offered in lootboxes. As you mentioned, they have now added items exclusively to the hobbit presents and lootboxes. Thankfully, I don't go crazy if I'm missing something. I'll always accept that there will be ones that I won't be able to obtain - I'm looking at you Lively Slug from the charity drive.

Ironically, they haven't been exactly adding new pets to Collections on time either. Look how long it took for Yondershire's goose to be added. And now the Treasure Bugan pet's aren't included? Not exactly the best source if you ask me.

[maartena]

Ironically, they haven't been exactly adding new pets to Collections on time either. Look how long it took for Yondershire's goose to be added. And now the Treasure Bugan pet's aren't included? Not exactly the best source if you ask me.

SSG has a tendency to deliver a half-baked product because there is an internal deadline that needs to be met. (They have to support DDO too, so they have to have deadlines so neither product falls behind) As a result of that though, they leave a lot of things out until they have a time to catch up. Just this most recent patch for instance they replaced the "placeholder" buff icons for Brawlers. Other examples are bridles, which should have been introduced the DAY one could no longer identify/forge the old bridles, and the very recent landscape raid change that broke a number of raid quests. Initially they said they would fix those quests to be fellowship only, but probably seeing the amount of work that takes they are now reverting the change.

And this has happened for many years. New things get released when they are 90% done, and the remaining 10% will be done later when someone has time for it.

Deadlines have become more important than delivering a quality product. And although there have been some instances where a bug or missing feature was so important they postponed a launch of a product, in MOST cases they will deliver a patch that is not complete and needs more work.

Personally, I would rather have them say: "Sorry we're not quite ready, we're postponing Update X.Y for 2 weeks" instead of delivering a buggy patch just to beat the deadline.

[Fadil]

I wish I knew how you manage that, as I play every day and have not yet made it halfway through one.

I dont even play that much atm (since it's summer and all), but it seems the dailies/ weeklies in Gundabad, combined with some missions here and there, give a lot of exp for the reward track.

[auximenes]

There is bound to be someone along the way that makes a suggestion like "how about we tie certain quests to only the day or night cycle to make things interesting" and you'll suddenly find out how many people don't actually like that idea.

There was at least one quest that was only available at certain times that was changed to be active at all times.

[SniperCT]

Short answer: FOMO

long answer: as already answers they'll get rotated back through but it could be awhile.

I think the biggest issue with the reward track is that it is accountwide. That makes sense for its intended purpose, but it does allow you to only get the pet for ONE toon. If you have 7 alts, and the pet only comes back once a year, it will take 7 years......

These rewards should definitely be account-wide.

[Brethwyn_EU]

In general we too don't want "limited availability" items to never be able to come back in the future, as we have well learned we have players joining all the time who miss items from years ago, for example. So, I'd expect these items to return in the future, but don't bank on it being any time soon, so if you are a completionist type, consider getting it when you can rather than hope for the future. BUT, I'd expect it to come back again someday in a Reward Track or similar rotation.

Appreciated

[Pewpewmidget]

In general we too don't want "limited availability" items to never be able to come back in the future, as we have well learned we have players joining all the time who miss items from years ago, for example. So, I'd expect these items to return in the future, but don't bank on it being any time soon, so if you are a completionist type, consider getting it when you can rather than hope for the future. BUT, I'd expect it to come back again someday in a Reward Track or similar rotation.

The main problem with the RT rewarding cosmetics is that only ONE character will be able to claim them and the cosmetics cannot be used on anyone else once the scroll has been read.

I think that it is time we do away with that mentality and make it so that everyone on the same account,
regardless of which server you are on, can be able to call out the same pets and ride the same mounts.
Then adapt that mentality to the pets and mounts that are already available on the store.
With that change, all the store cosmetics and mounts would look more attractive to collectors and enthusiasts.
AND here's the best part... you guys will make money!

On to the other cosmetics that you cannot earn in game, i.e, the community event cosmetics...
You guys should add those to the store as well. You will make money!
Same with the cosmetics on the RT. You will make money!

[maartena]

you guys will make money!
You will make money!

I decided a long time ago I will never ever buy pets and/or horses unless they are account wide. I do believe I have bought ALL currently available account wide steeds except for two, simply because I did not like the design of them.

But yeah. I did buy some individual horses in the past, and then eventually decided that I did not want to play that particular toon anymore...... deleted the toon, realized later that I might have bought a steed with a lot of LP and decided: Not doing that anymore. I make too many alts and I switch toons too often as "current main" so to speak that I just cannot justify ever buying any cosmetics that aren't "account wide".

I stopped buying cosmetics in general because I have 320 slots filled, and every time there is a festival that has good looking cosmetics, I end up having to make tough decisions as to what to remove.

We need.....

- account wide pets only in the store. (any single pet you purchased in the past becomes account wide)
- account wide steeds only in the store. (any single steed you purchased in the past becomes account wide)
- change the 70 mithril coin steeds in festivals to be account wide. Having to spend that on every toon is insane.
- more cosmetic slots in the wardrobe, or a technical overhaul that makes it possible to have more.

[Lambtron]

In general we too don't want "limited availability" items to never be able to come back in the future, as we have well learned we have players joining all the time who miss items from years ago, for example. So, I'd expect these items to return in the future, but don't bank on it being any time soon, so if you are a completionist type, consider getting it when you can rather than hope for the future. BUT, I'd expect it to come back again someday in a Reward Track or similar rotation.

Let there be cloaks!