Filling the Gaps: following in the footsteps of the Wildwood and the Angle

[Aleziana]

If I tell you I saw it will you stop spamming it everywhere?

MoL

Oh my god exited news !!! I m definitely gonna buy this.

I have 2 questions.

1) where did you linked the new map of this region?

2) Why did you names it "Cardolan" ? Cardonal use to be a word for a whole Arno's Sub-region and not a name for a specific area like "Evendim" for example. Also Cardolan use to cover (as a region ) all of the South Eriador and not just south of Bree. And finally the word Cardolan used to be a use of a different time period when Arnor still existed.

[TesalionLortus]

If I tell you I saw it will you stop spamming it everywhere?

MoL

Sure! Unless of course a casual conversation in an unrelated to SSG discussion calls for it... but yep, might have overdone above :P

[TesalionLortus]

Well, some region names in the game are more of a symbolic/call back/big impression value than exact name of the geographical area. For example, The Great River would be an example of a call back/big impression value, I guess. So Cordolan is kind of the same probably, even though it's technically not all of Cardolan and not really a good geographical name for the period/area

[alwaysbroke]

1) where did you linked the new map of this region?

Palantir server "leak"

[Scenario]

2) Why did you names it "Cardolan" ? Cardonal use to be a word for a whole Arno's Sub-region and not a name for a specific area like "Evendim" for example. Also Cardolan use to cover (as a region ) all of the South Eriador and not just south of Bree. And finally the word Cardolan used to be a use of a different time period when Arnor still existed.

Cardolan is a subregion of the greater kingdom of Arnor. Arnor is comprised of three smaller geographic regions - Arthedain (encompassing The Shire, Evendim, portions of North Downs and Breeland), Rhudaur (encompassing the Lone-lands, portions of the Trollshaws, and the Ettenmoors), and Cardolan (the hills and wild lands south of Breeland and Lonelands). Further south of Cardolan to the ocean shore between the Brandywine and Greyflood rivers is considered Minhiriath.

[LagunaD2]

One depiction of the Arnor's successors and Angmar:

[Aranaan]

The lore knowledge is weak among many and it will get worse once Amazon launches their "based on" Tolkien series. It will be like watering out the cola. It taste somewhat like cola, but it will never be the real deal.

[seekingerin]

Kind of disappointed that the big summer announcement was the low-level expansion that Severlin had basically already announced; Severlin made it sound like the announcement was about something completely different. Still, I'm glad to see more information coming out about the expansion. It's nice to see things starting to solidify.

It seems like there's a lot of emphasis on the Nazgul in this expansion, and Boromir looks to play a big part in it. Those seem like good moves. I'm happy to see mention of the "far history of Middle-earth"; SSG is always great at drawing in history and lore. I think I'm also glad that there's going to be an alternative set of epic quests. That's probably the best way of handling the epic.

A super quick note about the teaser; there appear to be some new art assets for Cardolan ruins. They're not super distinct from either the Gondor assets or the Evendim assets, and in fact they may just be slightly altered textures, but still. They might help give Cardolan a distinct feel. I'm glad they're not just using the same ruins they use in the Bree-Lands, etc; Evendim-style ruins should help give Cardolan a grander feel. I was hoping for some new elven assets with the elven ruins in the Swanfleet, but the ruins in the teaser looked quite familiar. It's hard to tell much from the quick glimpse the teaser gives, though.

My only real concern about the new information is that it sounds like we'll have to pay for this new area. That's understandable given the sheer scale of the landscape and the number of quests that are going to be necessary to scale a new player to level 32. If the point is to appeal to new players brought in by the Amazon series, I'm not sure a paid expansion is the way to go, though. I question how many endgame-focused players would, on the other hand, want to pay for a level 1-32 expansion. I'll buy it, because I buy every expansion, and because I like the idea of an alternative starting area. I imagine this isn't going to sell as well as a level-cap expansion would, though. One instance and one skirmish don't make for much of an incentive for players who only care about the endgame, and in fact I wonder if I'm even going to get much opportunity to play that content given the fact that it would require the people in my raid group to buy into content that many of them are unlikely to be interested in. I wonder if the better move would have been to release this as a free expansion and accept that as the cost of fostering goodwill and attracting and retaining players, who would then invest the game in other ways.

[Valather89]

Yeah, I don't expect it to be a huge draw for new players either. I think it's mostly about alt-oholics. While nobody here has the numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if this game makes more money out of people playing alts than most games that are more about the endgame than the journey. I mean, people over at the WoW Classic community mostly support bigger xp gains and flocked towards the Seasons of Mastery servers partly for that reason, while here in LOTRO the Treebeard LS was -and still is- a much bigger success than Shadowfax. And most MMO's don't even consider selling experience disablers like LOTRO does (one of the main reasons I stopped caring about SWTOR, actually). This game's playerbase is just different, lol. Also, Before the Shadow seems to feed a lot off Eriador/SoA nostalgia. So I think this new mini-expansion can sell quite decently, because anyone will be able to enjoy it regardless of the hundreds of hours they've poured into taking their characters to level cap (not counting Valars). I'm as concerned as everyone else about the price tag though.

Level 32 seems like a strange stopping point for these two zones though: too high to end up in Bree-land with everyone else and too low to make it to Rivendell with Boromir (I also find it funny that they're 'encouraging' players to bypass Yondershire so soon after adding it). The illustration seems to show the Black Riders riding on water, so it's probably Sarn Ford. Since we know that's where they drove the rangers away, I guess it's possible that we're sent to Esteldín in the North Downs with Halbarad after the defeat. That's cool if that were the case - but imagine how cooler it would be while playing a Ranger character ourselves. :P

[Aethilods]

but imagine how cooler it would be while playing a Ranger character ourselves. :P

Been saying it for years now...bring the Ranger class!!!

[Bragolos]

(I also find it funny that they're 'encouraging' players to bypass Yondershire so soon after adding it).

This is what I don't get as well. I'm very happy I postponed exploring / questing Wildwood, Angle and Yondershire until now, because this encourages to start off fresh 'one last time'. It's been years and I never thought I'd try it again, it's such a daunting task to get to 140 and there are so many great other video games out there. I do not really mind the gap between level 32 (Before the shadow) and level 40 (Angle), but why o why couldn't Yondershire be level 32-35 or something like that, to really be able to play only new content from level 1-50? It seems that the level 20-23 range is arbitrary as well, since it doesn't line up with the Shire, Ered Luin or Evendim, so it could as well be 12 levels higher.

Nevertheless, although my first response was disappointment (2022 will be the very first year in LOTRO history without any new endgame level landmass), I'm kind of warming up for the idea of this mini-expac. Hopefully they will make the skirmish system good again. You know, they could for example add Reputation Accelerators to the barter items?

As a sidenote: it would also be great to complement the release of the Amazon series. Since that series will be very ambigious in my opinion (I think it might be a good series on its own, the trailers got me interested, but from a purely Tolkien-lore-perspective it's not looking good), LOTRO might add real Tolkien-events from the history of Middle-earth in these new zones and act as a sort of counter-weight to the fanfictionesque depiction of Galadriel, Elrond and friends (tell me where is Celeborn, for....).

[TesalionLortus]

LOTRO might add real Tolkien-events from the history of Middle-earth in these new zones and act as a sort of counter-weight to the fanfictionesque depiction of Galadriel, Elrond and friends

Some flashbacks or stories at least would have been cool, though the flaw of the story wouldn't be too great, I guess? In terms of levels and recommended order in which you play the content, I mean. Since a lot of stuff that resolves around Eregion is told in Eregion, but the full-fledged account about the advances of Sauron's army and the Celebrimbor banner we hear in the Angle (and lvl ranges here are pretty close) so it would have been great if the stories behind Caras Gelebren were the extension of that. But with the levels being 1-32... not sure if that could work. Technically they can do whatever whenever (and a player will just forget all these details and how to put them together before they reach Angle/Eregion bits of the history) but it still kind of baffles me what might be a story justification for a low level player to delve so deep into a forgotten elven lore, so curious

Anyway, might happen, but wouldn't expect anything too big. I guess they would share some info if that was the case (meaning with grand memory sequences and entire story behind Sauron's invasion and the forging, not to mention, in LOTRO, that would need to include some additional context for Amarthiel and her part in these events no doubt... so with levels 1-30... not possible)

(tell me where is Celeborn, for....).

Seriously, has anybody seen this elf?

[provamail10]

I wish @Scenario will bring us a casual stroll on Cardolan & Swanfleet the sooner, the better.

As for the thread, once we know the next landscape content, I'd like to start guessing the one after this. Given that SSG seems to avoid contiguity between zones with very different levels and that the next release should be level cap, I'd vote for Harondor.

Maybe Garan or the best explorers here have some piece of news about what's next.

[TesalionLortus]

As for the thread, once we know the next landscape content, I'd like to start guessing the one after this. Given that SSG seems to avoid contiguity between zones with very different levels and that the next release should be level cap, I'd vote for Harondor.

That's contiguity with Ithilien though (anyway, I don't think that's what they're trying to do, it's just how it may appear sometimes, not a rule)

I remembered they said something about 3 or 4 directions they can choose from? The 3 are obviously Rhun, Harad, rest of Mordor/Khand. As for the fourth (if there was a fourth?) I have no idea but I would assume everything to do with lingering Angmarim plot threads and book events in Eriador (because I doubt it's Western Gondor, seems like odd choice and not really pressing to go there now)



1. Logically, from the most pressing matters story-wise and chronologically (also logistically), I would go with Eriador/main epics/Angmar stuff, and you don't even need any new assets here. Harder to give us player cap content with more interesting landscape here but seriously, they could manage (maybe open up some areas around Grey Havens), besides Tales of Yore in Eriador or Angmar 2.0 map/extension of the Iron Pass (with Angmarim plot threads if that's where they are holed up) wouldn't be bad ideas either...

Then they could also come up with new filling-in-the-blanks-regions in Eriador given time and opportunity (Mount Gram in particular would be a nice one if they were working with Angmar landscape again), just do not make it your main focus anymore



2. Optionally, either towards Rhun (but need A LOT of cool, new assets here!) or Nurn (need less new assets I guess... but still cool if it was very original right?). But both of these have huge bodies of water so like I said in this thread... if I were SSG I would try and make proper use of bodies of water before we get there because you could really enhance the experience in this way and seems like a stupid idea *not to do that* given how we're running out of relevant areas that *do not* include a larger body of water or shoreline.

So if we're going in one of these direction - I would choose Nurn. At least there might be lore justifications to miss out on sailing opportunities on the sea of Nurn (corruption and such, or in general there not being much sailing in the land of the slaves). But I would leave Rhun for later so there is more time to develop new assets + maybe it'll be possible to do something cool with that sea of Rhun visually and in terms of exploration, given the prospect of some boats in the future



Except definitely NOT towards Harad, I wouldn't take us there. Hardly makes sense for the narrative to take us there right now + it's one of the biggest shorelines (with cool potential biomes) that you could really use given time and potential development of some boats for us. If Rhun is a magically attractive pearl that you can take advantage of... Harad would be like a giant nugget of gold and pearls scattered all around - there is just so much you could do if you utilized the vastness of Harad with different biomes and its large shoreline with havens of Umbar.

But from these other directions, ultimately... no idea what they might choose? But I really hope it will be strategically right one - all things considered - and not just done on a whim, since we're at kind of a crossroad here and the decision may shape future of the game (either very exciting and well-resolved, or so-so business as usual but with nothing excitingly new)

[Scenario]

I wish @Scenario will bring us a casual stroll on Cardolan & Swanfleet the sooner, the better.

I would definitely expect it to happen but I can't speak to the timing yet. Both regions are something I am very excited to show off - I think we've achieved something really special with the landscape, in terms of how it looks and in terms of our development process behind it (which I am looking forward to applying to our future new regions!)

[Scenario]

I remembered they said something about 3 or 4 directions they can choose from? The 3 are obviously Rhun, Harad, rest of Mordor/Khand. As for the fourth (if there was a fourth?) I have no idea but I would assume everything to do with lingering Angmarim plot threads and book events in Eriador (because I doubt it's Western Gondor, seems like odd choice and not really pressing to go there now)

Most of our updates next year will be focused on advancing our narrative through the landscape - which means more level cap regions can be expected. We'll be starting that journey in some familiar spaces, and then moving into unknown territory as the story progresses!

One of the hardest parts about introducing level-cap landscape in Eriador is how it plays with the content surrounding it. It doesn't feel great to have a level 140 region right next to a level 30 region. We haven't completely avoided this in the past. Lothlorien and Vales of Anduin are an example of level disparity between adjacent regions. We made the conscious decision to have very limited access between the two just to make it harder for those "oops and now I'm at a rally point" moments for lower level players. Trying to avoid those kinds of experiences is even more important at the lower levels as newer players may not understand what happened and may think the game is being extremely punitive to them for simply exploring.

[Scenario]

Also - I have been reading this thread since it started, and you all have no idea how hard it has been to not pop in and comment on the speculation that was going on in it. This landscape has been in the works basically since I finished Erebor Housing!

[wispsong]

Most of our updates next year will be focused on advancing our narrative through the landscape - which means more level cap regions can be expected. We'll be starting that journey in some familiar spaces, and then moving into unknown territory as the story progresses!

One of the hardest parts about introducing level-cap landscape in Eriador is how it plays with the content surrounding it. It doesn't feel great to have a level 140 region right next to a level 30 region. We haven't completely avoided this in the past. Lothlorien and Vales of Anduin are an example of level disparity between adjacent regions. We made the conscious decision to have very limited access between the two just to make it harder for those "oops and now I'm at a rally point" moments for lower level players. Trying to avoid those kinds of experiences is even more important at the lower levels as newer players may not understand what happened and may think the game is being extremely punitive to them for simply exploring.

1-32 sounds like a lot of questing involved here but I'm wondering why not doing this as 1-50? A completely new experience before we go into Moria. 32 is a bit too low for Trollshaws or Angle/Wildwood so we need to backtrack to NDowns or Evendim. That introduces us to an epic we haven't seen the start off. Thinking of new players here. Maybe I'm missing something but to me it seems that I either want to go one way or the other and not see myself in the middle of a story that started at lvl 1. Now the new "epic" could guide maybe through Angle but again that starts too high. Can we expect a continuation to cover the last 18 levels? Right now, I really can't see a crossover to the older regions.

For me, the epics are the guiding line through the content and while I, knowing them, see where I can miss something, a new player would not.

[Scenario]

1-32 sounds like a lot of questing involved here but I'm wondering why not doing this as 1-50? A completely new experience before we go into Moria. 32 is a bit too low for Trollshaws or Angle/Wildwood so we need to backtrack to NDowns or Evendim. That introduces us to an epic we haven't seen the start off. Thinking of new players here. Maybe I'm missing something but to me it seems that I either want to go one way or the other and not see myself in the middle of a story that started at lvl 1. Now the new "epic" could guide maybe through Angle but again that starts too high. Can we expect a continuation to cover the last 18 levels? Right now, I really can't see a crossover to the older regions.

For me, the epics are the guiding line through the content and while I, knowing them, see where I can miss something, a new player would not.

The main story content of this update will connect with main epic story at an appropriate level. As I'm not a content design, its better that discussion about those particulars be left to them when they are ready to discuss it.

[TesalionLortus]

Also - I have been reading this thread since it started, and you all have no idea how hard it has been to not pop in and comment on the speculation that was going on in it. This landscape has been in the works basically since I finished Erebor Housing!

Good to hear from you Scenario. That must have been really hard, yeah! Well, I guess we should stop speculating about the future content so you aren't tempted anymore... uh well, probably won't happen though...

One of the hardest parts about introducing level-cap landscape in Eriador is how it plays with the content surrounding it. It doesn't feel great to have a level 140 region right next to a level 30 region. We haven't completely avoided this in the past. Lothlorien and Vales of Anduin are an example of level disparity between adjacent regions. We made the conscious decision to have very limited access between the two just to make it harder for those "oops and now I'm at a rally point" moments for lower level players.

Is it really bad though? I was never offended I've run into lvl 50 Half-orcs in Breelands or Dourhands in front of Sarnur (if anything it made me excited for what the future holds and willing to explore even more!), and, also... those mobs are still in the game and I don't hear anybody complaining or trying to remove them.

Trying to avoid those kinds of experiences is even more important at the lower levels as newer players may not understand what happened and may think the game is being extremely punitive to them for simply exploring.

Except "simply exploring" isn't really possible in the game as it is because you can't progress that way as of now (no exp gains) and if you engage with existing quest chains thoroughly you're aware of all the vectors, where they lead/where they don't and most lvl ranges anyway so you're less likely to run into danger completely unaware (unless you use Valar to enjoy free exploration in particular but then you don't worry about lvl ranges at all)

So the way I see it you can't have it both ways, for the most part - so you're either trying to expand Middle-earth in an open-world manner (which is commendable and a huge quality behind LOTRO's world) or have a more hermetic, strongly curated experience at which point you might as well introduce loading screens between zones like ESO because why not - will be safer and will help with lag maybe! So take a lesson from Yondershire, everyone was excited to have this amazing connection, bah, A LOT of people here wished for one more connection to Northern Evendim, no one cared about what lvl ranges all of these are and while we're at it, granted I haven't been there to recheck, but most likely we still need that connection between Vales Goblin Town Entrance and classic Goblin Town to exist, in both directions.

You can of course try to keep the lvl ranges close between zones when possible but being motivated by "avoidance of level disparity between adjacent regions" when deciding where to go next or writing stories sounds like a needless stretch and a hindrance to world-building IMO. Example: say, you wouldn't want a level 200 or something zone next to Gondor's border so rather than go full-on open world on the entire Gondor/Harad border (eventually) you decide to have lots of these artificial mountains without any passes or perhaps even an entirely closed off guarded border and the only connection though a port. Cheap and needless, why do that? Also, in my experience, players - in all sorts of games - want to explore so trying to curate that too much goes kinda contradictory to the idea of exploration. Just food for thought but makes me wonder, whether it's like a part of larger strategy so from above too or simply designers and world-builders sort of feeling like 'this is the way'?


Just to give an example from Assassin's Creed, when you look at the map you'll of course find clusters of zones that are similar lvl ranges but overall it doesn't matter at all, look how isolated the starting region Siwa is, literally surrounded by higher lvl ones, and the main mission has you outright ride through Isolated Desert (lvl 40) to reach Iment Nome (lvl 6)... and nobody cares, it's really cool and an insignificant detail. So no, I don't think a bigger connection from Lothlorien to Vales would have been disastrous, though the way how they're geographically... in this case it's not really that we needed a bigger one. But it wouldn't have been disastrous, in any case. You shouldn't be afraid of the level spikes between some zones or anything. Scr*w it, we want them! The more connections the better.

As for the future content, I'm excited no doubt, but I can only repeat what I said earlier - I can only hope your choices here will be strategically right ones, given certain characteristics of some of these as-of-yet-unexplored lands. Not much else to say here. Well, at least not until someone spots some land development and everything unfolds anew

[Scenario]

Is it really bad though? I was never offended I've run into lvl 50 Half-orcs in Breelands or Dourhands in front of Sarnur (if anything it made me excited for what the future holds and willing to explore even more!), and, also... those mobs are still in the game and I don't hear anybody complaining or trying to remove them.

You don't see the bugs we receive from new players who are confused by level 50 Half-orcs steamrolling their level 12s. I'm not saying we should never do things like this, but I do think that we need to be thoughtful when we do. I think its important that if we ever do something like that, that it isn't a surprise - its not a gotcha moment, that players have an opportunity to survey the field before them before falling into peril. Swanfleet, for example, borders areas that are considerably higher level than it - and we're hoping that our use of geography will help indicating crossing over into more hostile territories. But its really hard to know how successful that will be until its in the hands of someone with fresh eyes. You, and most people here on the message boards, have too much experience with the game to really see it that way. You know the lay of the land and known what walking into existing, more dangerous areas means to you and your character.

Except "simply exploring" isn't really possible in the game as it is because you can't progress that way as of now (no exp gains) and if you engage with existing quest chains thoroughly you're aware of all the vectors, where they lead/where they don't and most lvl ranges anyway so you're less likely to run into danger completely unaware (unless you use Valar to enjoy free exploration in particular but then you don't worry about lvl ranges at all)

Exploration and progression are not necessarily linked together. Ideally, there's some incentive to explore, but often the explorer-types do so out of a desire to see the world, to climb the next peak. That is their reward. Their progression is a more fulfilled knowledge of the game world they are in. To that end, and one of the things that I am very proud of with Swanfleet and Cardolan, is the traversability of both regions. Excluding the region impassables, there's very little within those regions that you can't see and climb up to. Breeland, Lone-lands, Trollshaws, Eregion, and (to a much lesser extent) Enedwaith are all very openly connected to these two new regions. Speaking from an exploration (and world design) perspective, that is very exciting and helps move a significant portion of Eriador out of the "fishbowl/theme-park" design the exemplified MMOs of that era.

So the way I see it you can't have it both ways, for the most part - so you're either trying to expand Middle-earth in an open-world manner (which is commendable and a huge quality behind LOTRO's world) or have a more hermetic, strongly curated experience at which point you might as well introduce loading screens between zones like ESO because why not - will be safer and will help with lag maybe! So take a lesson from Yondershire, everyone was excited to have this amazing connection, bah, A LOT of people here wished for one more connection to Northern Evendim, no one cared about what lvl ranges all of these are and while we're at it, granted I haven't been there to recheck, but most likely we still need that connection between Vales Goblin Town Entrance and classic Goblin Town to exist, in both directions.

I've spoken on the Yondershire before (in my stream, I believe). About how the landscape for it was selected and developed with an intent towards "what we can do in the time we have". There were certainly players wishing and hoping for some mountain passes into Evendim, or the portion north of the Bindbole Wood to be connected. And had we the time for it, those were things we'd like to have considered as well. But our team is only so big, and we only have so much time for development of updates which means sometimes things have to go on the cutting room floor. I do think that the work we've done over the last year has shown that we have an interest in expanding on the existing game world - which means that addressing those wants is not a case of us not wanting to do it but a case of finding the right time and opportunity to do so.

You can of course try to keep the lvl ranges close between zones when possible but being motivated by "avoidance of level disparity between adjacent regions" when deciding where to go next or writing stories sounds like a needless stretch and a hindrance to world-building IMO. Example: say, you wouldn't want a level 200 or something zone next to Gondor's border so rather than go full-on open world on the entire Gondor/Harad border (eventually) you decide to have lots of these artificial mountains without any passes or perhaps even an entirely closed off guarded border and the only connection though a port. Cheap and needless, why do that? Also, in my experience, players - in all sorts of games - want to explore so trying to curate that too much goes kinda contradictory to the idea of exploration. Just food for thought but makes me wonder, whether it's like a part of larger strategy so from above too or simply designers and world-builders sort of feeling like 'this is the way'?

Like I said, we want to be thoughtful about how we handle those sorts of borders when it comes to level disparity. It is vitally important to think about it in areas that are specifically intended for new players. As a player gets more experience in a game, they have a greater sense of where they are going and the kinds of threats to expect, and those kinds of boundaries could require less specific efforts on our part to avoid player frustration.

[maartena]

Is it really bad though? I was never offended I've run into lvl 50 Half-orcs in Breelands or Dourhands in front of Sarnur (if anything it made me excited for what the future holds and willing to explore even more!), and, also... those mobs are still in the game and I don't hear anybody complaining or trying to remove them.

There is a bit of a difference between walking into a level 50 area as a level 20, where you can likely still escape with your life intact, and a zone that is above level 105, when they drastically increased the upwards difficulty curve. A level 50 half orc or dourhand chasing you after he took about half your health is one thing, you can likely escape....

A level 140 mob of any kind is a death sentence similarly to the Steps of Gram one-shotters in Ettenmoors. You see the mob......and you get to click "retreat" or "revive" less than 1 second later.

So I get Scenario's concern. There is an obvious zone barrier between Misty Mountains and vales of Anduin, but not so much between Lothlorien and Anduin. In both cases they made the access a bit hard to find, and you really have to know where you are going.

Also, at that point you have gone way past the "Undying" title deed, where if you are in the new Cardolan area as a sub-level 20 happily exploring the story and you run into a level 140 area..... you aren't going to be too happy

I think it would not be too far fetched to see South Gondor as a "stand alone" level 140 area, as the jump from 100/105 isn't as deadly, and after that maybe some level 50/60 "Moria alternative" leveling zones in southern Eriador, to build a bit of a "buffer" so to speak between lower and higher level zones. It's a bit less "deadly" to put a zone like that in between Cardolan, and wherever a future high level zone might be.

[maartena]

Also - I have been reading this thread since it started, and you all have no idea how hard it has been to not pop in and comment on the speculation that was going on in it. This landscape has been in the works basically since I finished Erebor Housing!

Am I correct in thinking some of it is already on live servers, just not accessible? I have been exploring in the Angle, and noticed some landscape changes over the last 6 months or so when looking south at its most southern point...... that always made me suspect something will go there next - the whole location of the Angle seemed too convenient not to - but I was sure when i started noticing some subtle landscape changes in the distance.....

Still could not reach it of course, as misadventure awaits you when trying to scale down towards the river too much, but it was fun to notice......

Also, how does SSG feel about exploring off-map? As you know there are quite a few areas (still) where with the right jumps and the right routes you can end up somewhere off the map. I know its probably frowned upon, but is there any danger in it?

[WeirdJedi]

Am I correct in thinking some of it is already on live servers, just not accessible? I have been exploring in the Angle, and noticed some landscape changes over the last 6 months or so when looking south at its most southern point...... that always made me suspect something will go there next - the whole location of the Angle seemed too convenient not to - but I was sure when i started noticing some subtle landscape changes in the distance.....

Still could not reach it of course, as misadventure awaits you when trying to scale down towards the river too much, but it was fun to notice......

You can die? I don't recall that happening when venturing south of the Angles when it was first released. I just remember thinking "there just has to be something down this huge chunk of swampland" and finding nothing while running into the weeds made of concrete.

[provamail10]

I would definitely expect it to happen but I can't speak to the timing yet. Both regions are something I am very excited to show off - I think we've achieved something really special with the landscape, in terms of how it looks and in terms of our development process behind it (which I am looking forward to applying to our future new regions!)

Many thanks! I hope the casual stroll will happen before the release of the zone.